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4th or 5th grade program? 
4th 

66% 
[ 2 ] 
5th 

33% 
[ 1 ] 

Total Votes : 3 

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hmschooling User
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Arkansas

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Teaching Textbooks Question 


My young daughter is almost 7 and rather advanced. We are completing 2nd grade soon. She is a very advanced reader and is finishing up Alpha Omega Horizons math 2 (an AO rep said it tends to be a grade or two ahead). Anyway, I'd like to change over to Teaching Textbooks. They have grade 5 now and soon will have grade 4. My DD took the 5th grade placement test and placed into 5th! There is not a sample or placement of the 4th grade yet. I'd like to know your thoughts on putting a gifted 7 yo in the 5th grade program...or put her into the 4th even though she placed higher just due to her age. 

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Minniewannabe User
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 113 Location: Florida

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: 


It's not the grade that's important, it's what she can do. Depending on the curriculum, 3rd to 4th grade teaches multiplication with large numbers, long division with large numbers, manipulating fractions (multiplying, dividing, etc.), lots of word problems, manipulation of measurements, and decimals. If she already knows those things, then I'd put her in 5th grade. If she doesn't, find where she should be.
Honestly, I'm not familiar with the curriculum to which you want to change. But beware, most say they are "grade levels ahead". For example, Abeka starts long division about the second week of 3rd grade. The p.s. schools here in Florida are just starting simple multiplication by 3rd grade. That's a big difference. Nonetheless, most of the homeschool curriculum out there is "ahead" of the public schools, but not each other. If you get something too hard for your daughter, she could get frustrated or worse, hate math forever.
Why not try a few word problems with some of the 3rd & 4th grade math concepts you want to skip. If she breezes through those, demonstrating that she knows the concepts and can apply them, then she's probably ready to skip. 

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hmschooling User
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Arkansas

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: 


Thanks for the reply
Just to update from my recent research into this:
Teaching Textbooks 5 is more along the lines of your typical 4th grade math. Not a problem for me, we just treat is as such and move on. The math we have been using truly IS advanced, introducing concepts quite early, and most using it would agree. DD has done very well.
She can add and subtract multidigit numbers with regrouping. She can multiply 1 digit by 1 digit and 1 digit by 2 digits. She can do simple division (10/2, 25/5, etc.), work with basic fractions, measure to a 1/4 inch, measure by cm, tell time to the minute, elapse time (sorta) compare basic measurements/times (1 day/24 hours, 1 hour/60 minutes, 3 feet/1 yard, 36in./3ft./1yd., etc.), does well with word problems with 2 steps, add/subt. money/decimals, count money and make simple change...
So, after knowing this, does this sound like she's ready for 4th grade math? (AKA Teaching Textbooks Grade 5) I plan to supplement with a word problem book as well...I don't think TT has many. (Daily Word Problems Grade 3 by EvanMoor). 

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happy2bhome User
Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 25

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: 


I would wait for the TT 4th grade. There are some concepts that are developmentally difficult for a child that age to understand. (Perimeter, Area, dividing fractions) I use Rod and Staff before we start Teaching Textbooks. The 4th and 5th grade Rod and Staff are very similar. We don't skip 4th, though, because the concepts are so important to grasp. They have to be reviewed and reviewed again. (Teaching Textbooks 5th is almost just like Rod and Staff 5th).
I would continue to drill math facts so that she isn't bogged down with them while trying to learn concept and also do some of the word problem books with her that you were going to supplement. Waiting a little longer will not hold her back.
Going too fast may discourage her. The only exception is if you use the 5th and decide you will let her go thru slowly and be ready to stop while she "catches up"and teach the underlying concept that she missed in the lower grades. _________________ Teresa L. 

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hmschooling User
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Arkansas

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: 


I forgot to mention her placement test scores: she needed a 10 on part A and got 13; she needed an 8 on part B and got 10.
Besides area and perimeter and dividing fractions, what other concepts differ between 4th and 5th? She already does area and perimeter in her Horizons 2 math.
Also, Happy2bhome: I have heard over and over that TT 5th is like your average 4th grade, 6th like your avg. 5th, etc. So you really think it's right up there with R&S 5th?
She distracts easily and gets very frustrated without a challenge...I do intend to go at her pace 100%. There are only 116 lessons (or was it 121) in the TT 5th grade table of contents so with a 180 day school year, we have plenty of time to slow down if needed. This seeing/hearing thing is really her style of learning too. I also let her watch a couple sample lectures and she picked up on a couple topics that she could have understood better from her 2nd grade Horizons workbook. It really just clicked for her! I'll go through the other samples with her to see how she does.
In deciding if the concepts are beyond her comprehension level, should I consider that she is a child that can read a jr. novel and have extemely accurate and detailed comprehension or would that be irrelevant to the math decision? 

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happy2bhome User
Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 25

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: 


Yes, R&S and TT are right on track with one another.
I don't know how it compared with other math programs. Our experience was that my 5th grader was able to akip 6th and go up to math 7, my 6th grader went up to Prealgebra, and my 8th grader went into Algebra 1 after completing half a year of 8th. They were all using R&S. That may be just how R&S works, though.
I wqs saying that area, perimeter and dividing fractions might be difficult concepts to study at a 5th grade level. I was not comparing one program to another at that point. Sorry I was unclear.
I still think that mentally she'll hit a road block at some point. There are some abstract concepts that may be more difficult for her. Giving her more time will not hurt her a bit and would probably be good for her not to push.
If you want to try it, just watch for the mental road blocks and be willing to give her the time she needs to "grow" into the math program.
Also, being able to fill in the blanks and follow a formula is not the same as understanding.
It does sound like she is a very good student. _________________ Teresa L. 

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hmschooling User
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Arkansas

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: 


Teresa,
You have been a HUGE help! Since R&S and TT are so similar, I compared the R&S 4th and 5th grade and see that you are certainly right. I'll wait on 4th grade TT. I keep seeing her as a 3rd grader skipping up to 4th/5th gr. math...but she's not! She's a 2nd grader skipping up to 3rd grade everything and 4th grade math! She's always been so far ahead, it's hard to realize that she really is so little when I see her reading Chronicles of Narnia and other long chapter books during rest time (as in finishing them at 12 sittings!). LOL Even at this route she'll finish TT PreCal in 10th grade!
WHat you said abotu being able to fill in the blanks and follow a formula not being the same as understanding really hit me...that's my thought as well, but I didn't realize that some of the concepts she is going through in her 2nd grade math she knows HOW to do, but has no idea how to apply it or why. (Volume, Perimeter, Area, even just equivalent fractions). Then again, I like the exposure but I think something that introduces to teach and not for the sake of exposure is better is these foundational years.
I'll plan on using Horizons K, 1, and 2 then going on to TT 4 (or K,1,2,3 then TT5) with all my kids. You've been a blessing and put my mind at ease I've been able to make a welleducated decision thanks to you! 

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happy2bhome User
Joined: 20 Mar 2008 Posts: 25

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: 


You are certainly welcome. Your daughter sounds a lot like my oldest, except my oldest is not so math oriented.
She could understand and read much higher than her grade level at a young age. She was 7 and her favorite book was God's Word: His Story, a 7th grade text, for example.
One problem is, at that age, they can comprehend the facts, sequences of events, who the characters are, etc in a book like Chronicles of Narnia but probably cannot pick up on the deeper, spiritual meaning.
I am glad I could help! _________________ Teresa L. 

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hmschooling User
Joined: 10 Jul 2007 Posts: 40 Location: Arkansas

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: 


Well, I just called TT to see if there was at least a table of contents for the Math 4 and she said it won't be out until at least DECEMBER!! I spoke with them for some time and she says that Math 5 is A LOT of review and teaches as if the child has no prior knowledge....SOOOOO, I guess we'll be going with Math 5. There are 114 lessons plus 16 tests/quizzes so that's only 130 days of work giving us plenty of time to slow down when needed. She says even though she's young, that if she passed the placement test and considering the review, she should be fine. If she had completed Horizons 3 already, she said Math 5 would be a definite. So, since we have the math 3 books, we'll just casually go over some through the summer maybe...
They plan to complete about 1 new grade a year and intend to go all the way down to Kindergarten! 

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