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Troubled with socialization of homeschooled students
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kmccarth
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Joined: 17 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject: Troubled with socialization of homeschooled students Reply with quote

As the subject states, I attended a public school but have encounter many numerous home schooled individuals. I am worried that homeschoolers (although above-average intelligence, generally) do not have the social skills required to interact with their peers. The defining moment of this is when I read this article: http://www.thecampusword.com/content/view/1973/502/.

It's about Adam Gadahn, a home-schooled American who is now a spin man for al-Qaeda. I can't help but wondering if he had a "normal" upbringing at a public/private school, would he have turned into a senior operative for a terrorist organization? Would his classmates kept him in-check from an early age to conform to the norm? Conformity, in this sense, is beneficial and quite necessary, I believe. Anyone care to discuss?
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Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What an odd thought.

My children interact quite well, both with their peers as well as with those
who are both younger and older than themselves.

To be honest, I find your 'defining moment' to be rather strange.
However, following that line of thought, I have to ask;

What of the criminals that came up through public school?
If they had been home-schooled, would they perhaps, have not taken that path?

hmmm...


mark
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Lily
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Troubled with socialization of homeschooled students Reply with quote

kmccarth wrote:


It's about Adam Gadahn, a home-schooled American who is now a spin man for al-Qaeda. I can't help but wondering if he had a "normal" upbringing at a public/private school, would he have turned into a senior operative for a terrorist organization? Would his classmates kept him in-check from an early age to conform to the norm? Conformity, in this sense, is beneficial and quite necessary, I believe. Anyone care to discuss?


This is silly.
If he had gone to public school he would have blown up a building anyway. Ask Timothy McVeigh.

Now, when most of the terrorists are homeschoolers and it's considered a key environment to raise future bombers, then you might have a point.

I can't help but wondering about your idea of conformity. Do you mean the gang-style bullying? The private taunts? The idea that students must have THIS bag or THESE jeans or they're shunned?

That type of conformity? Where an individual is looked upon as something strange and not worthy?

Yeah. That would have made ALL the difference. Heck, he might have just shot up the school instead.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, journalism at its best. There was also a recent article in the NYT, I believe, about how soldiers coming back from Iraq are 87% more likely to commit murder. They conveniently forgot to mention that the resulting murder rate is still 1/5 that of the same age range in the general population.

Given a large enough group of people, there will always be a few who are nut jobs. Question is, is that a larger or smaller percentage than what you find in the competing demographics?
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elliemaejune
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not very concerned whether my dc can "interact with their peers," if by "peers" you mean "the other equally immature children they might meet at school." Often the "interaction" is nothing more than pooling ignorance.

Children will be in their teens for just a few years. They will, however, be adults for a very long time. IMHO, frequent interaction with other adults helps children know how to behave when they get to be adults. Also, interaction with a variety of age groups--both younger and older--is of more value in learning how to get along in the real world, where interacting with other people who are exactly one's age rarely occurs.
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bruisin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh my. What a misconception of what caused the problem.

IT WAS NOT homeschooling that caused said problems, no more than homeschooling means you don't socialize! I don't know where people come up with these ideas, for the life of me.

In order to be able to make an intelligent discussion & come to a good clear conclusion you must have
1. a beginning thought going in (which you have)
2. discussions with others on both sides of the issues, and articles both pro and con (you have some of that)
3. interacting with said peers from both groups. Form friendships with both homeschooled/public schooled children.
4. have an ending/conclusion (which you've yet to have)

assuming that our children will or wont turn out to be terrorists doesn't have as much to do with homeschooling alone, as it has more to do with raising of said children, and the children themselves.

Need I mention Columbine? Those children were in public school...as are the other school shootings.

at the very least, I beg you to please continue your research and develop a basis for a real opinion before assuming anything. So many people jump to conclusions without having a full basis of opinion to draw upon.

jmho
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Unlucky
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello. I was homeschooled, or more accurately "unschooled". There is a social downside that can exist with homeschooling. Unfortunately your message doesn't express this very well... as other people have pointed out, plenty of violent people attended/attend public school. Some specifically become violent at school, due to their hatred of school. How anyone can say that because one homeschooler got attached to something like Al-Quada, that homeschooling creates more criminals, I don't get at all. Yeah, homeschoolers are a real dangerous group, alright. The general populace should cower in fear. Rolling Eyes

On a semi-related note, I have been searching for a place to talk to people who were deprived of social interaction when they were homeschooled. I haven't had any luck. Since I'm here I might as well say that when I was a kid/teen, it was really hard to find any social stuff to do when you weren't in school. It was like no one cared and they wanted you to suffer. If you weren't Christian, you could practically forget having any social group to get involved with. I think it's really important that parents to remember how much personal relationships and communication and just playing and hanging out is important for their kids' lives and well being. They need to be allowed to make friends. They aren't adults yet, and they deserve childhoods. Thank you.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most people knew that even 20 years ago, it's just that back then there was a real danger of Social Services taking your kids away if they played outside during school hours or got caught walking around the neighborhood. In Missouri, Social Services even did things like leave anonymous calls on the abuse hotline so they'd have an excuse to come take away kids, so you didn't want anyone except other homeschoolers to know who you were. That environment of fear has mostly disappeared at this point, however, since homeschooling is mainstream and public opinion more positive.

Basically, I don't think you need to worry. The latest crop of homeschoolers should have no trouble on the socialization end of things. Socialization or lack thereof is more a family issue at this point, not a homeschooling issue.
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ClassiclyAmber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homeschool Kids are "Socially Challenged"!

I was recently in a checkout line and the clerk asked if my kids were home schooled. When I answered "yes", he responded as any caring citizen concerned about the social welfare of my children would, and asked, "aren't you worried about them not getting enough socialization?" The "socialization" question seems to be the old-standby, passive aggressive attack, by those outside spectators of the homeschool movement. How would my children be able to integrate into society, without first learning the valuable "social skills" that only a public school experience could provide?

Rest of article:
http://homeschooling.about.com/od/socialization/a/socialchallenge.htm


I just have to laugh at this because the whole socialization "problem" has been disproved so many times...
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momo3boys
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was recently talking to a therapist and she was very concerned about my oldest child's socialization. AHHHHHH! I just want to scream! Doesn't anyone actually read research on this! My oldest has great friends and social skills with people from infant to 80. I'm not exaggerating. He talks to anyone and everyone he sees. He an get someone's life story after talking to them for about 5min. The opportunities that he has had to do this almost all happened when other children were at school. He aw someone drilling a new hole for a telephone pole and learned a ton about the infrastructure of the telephone and electric companies and saw something really cool at the same time. The ids in school probably will never see this in their lives.
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Mathmom
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would his classmates kept him in-check from an early age to conform to the norm? Conformity, in this sense, is beneficial and quite necessary, I believe. Anyone care to discuss?


If you believe that at an early age, children can look beyond themselves, why don't they just let the little 5 yr olds run the school? Do you know of any teachers who have observed such a thing as children keeping other children in-check? I have with my children, with each other--sorry, that only would prove that homeschool siblings would help each other.

Sorry, you don't have much to work with here. Homeschooling is good for children whether you think it is "normal" or not. Go find some real statistics.
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quickshot
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, let's talk lack of socialization. In school, you have to line up to go to the bathroom, shhhh...no talking in the halls. In class, shhhh...no talking while in class. Class clown gets everyone in trouble, silent lunch, no talking. Oh yeah heads down, quiet time....everyone is too loud. 20 minutes for recess maybe!!! He hit me, she is talking about me, they want let me play...Teachers reply, go work it out. I could go on and on about how much socialization there is in school.

During health today we learned about our teeth and got each other wet with the waterpix, can't do that in class. She is learning that $105.00 of groceries is NOTHING!!! Not only is she learning at home, she is learing about life too.

We socialize with other homeschooled children who omgosh have the best manners in the world, don't talk back to their parents, and have an awesome relationship with children of all ages and adults!

Ok, off my soapbox! Smile
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ncmom
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Troubled with socialization of homeschooled students Reply with quote

kmccarth wrote:
As the subject states, I attended a public school but have encounter many numerous home schooled individuals. I am worried that homeschoolers (although above-average intelligence, generally) do not have the social skills required to interact with their peers. The defining moment of this is when I read this article: http://www.thecampusword.com/content/view/1973/502/.

It's about Adam Gadahn, a home-schooled American who is now a spin man for al-Qaeda. I can't help but wondering if he had a "normal" upbringing at a public/private school, would he have turned into a senior operative for a terrorist organization? Would his classmates kept him in-check from an early age to conform to the norm? Conformity, in this sense, is beneficial and quite necessary, I believe. Anyone care to discuss?


Who are you to decide what is normal and why would you want to conform to anything? If socialization to you is drugs, gangs, guns, knives, teen pregnancy, teachers having sex with students, failing schools, the option of skipping class, teachers who are just there for a paycheck, and passing kids because they can no longer fail them, then I feel sorry for you.

Furthermore if this had been a kid who was in the PS system no one would have said "the PS's made him this way" they would have found another reason. But because he was homeschooled and people assume we lock our kids in closets and they never see other people that this caused him to be this way. In actuality he chose this. He was old enough to make his own decisions and he made the wrong one.
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Jazzy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want my children being socialized to act like many of the public school students I encountered. And I certainly don't want them in college dating in the manner that was suggested in the article on your website.

I'll take my chances with homeschooling. Wink
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jennm2203
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAZZY, AMEN!!!!

I agree with you, I surley do not want our daughter acting like her classmates where she is right now. They are 100% opposite of the way she is even now and 120% opposite of the person I would like to see her become.

It is time the parents who are modivated enough to take this homeschool thing on, to take control of our kids and do what is right, teach them well, give them good morals and teach them how to be productive citizens who are considerate, compassionate and understanding.

(Let me add, just like in public school, kids will be kids but many times, the parents are to blame. If the parent will not control the child, will not teach morals and manners, and allows them to get involved with bad things, then bam! We have on our hands a bad kid, who was not raised right, just happened to be home schooled, so lets blame the entire home school idea! Home schooling should not be made the scapegoat of shoddy upbringings and lack of control. BUT the Public schools can be held at least 50% the scapegoat and 50% responsable, but it is when the teachers lose control and are not doing their job.)

Cheers!
Jenn
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