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Frustration
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laurabeth
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Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:44 pm    Post subject: Frustration Reply with quote

I am new here, and I am new to homeschooling. I joined this forum and some other online groups because I am new to homeschooling and I am looking for help resources from people who have been doing this longer than me. I guess you could say that even though I don't like the ps system at all and have no faith in it I am terribly worried (like it seems a lot of "newbies" are) about missing things. I am the type that would pack the whole house to go on a week long vacation for fear of leaving something important behind.

I am not usually one to make waves, I like to have intelligent conversation and I am always up for a healthy debate of facts and opinions as long as the mud and slinger are left at the door. I have been reading thread after thread, post after post, to gain knowledge and confidence in homeschooling and my choice to do it and although I have found droves of information and I feel like I have been respected and helped with questions I also feel frustrated. I guess maybe I am a minority in the homeschooling community or something, and I am just not meant to fit in with the support systems set up for homeschooling but it saddens me. I don't mean this to attack anyones opinions or beliefs at all, I guess I just don't understand.

From what I have read here and on other groups, as well as my own (new) experience when you decide to homeschool/continue to homeschool you are put down, ridiculed, and questioned by many for the duration because of stereotypes and misconceptions. But entwined in so many threads are stereotypical remarks about "x" type of people and "y" type of people grouping people by all sorts of things and maybe the people who post these stereotypical comments don't realize that maybe someone who is x or y might be a homeschooler on this board it is very hurtful when you are and its no different to those x and y people to see that part of them put down than it is to have the homeschooling part of them put down.


Every single person on here could be grouped in one stereotype or another, whether it be "everyone over 21" or "every red-head" or "every one who uses x curriculum" etc. everyone can be "put" somewhere. Every time anyone uses any stereotype it is offending someone and all of us knows what that feels like.

I don't want to get into specifics as far as what offended me or who said it, because I don't think anyone had that intention, I think more likely than not it just wasn't thought about. Many of the posts were made quite a time ago too. I am sure I have offended someone in my lifetime and maybe I have even on this board and I certainly didn't mean to. I do know however that every time I do go to post here or anywhere I will think twice. I want nothing more than to have a place like this to feel welcome and be accepted because I don't have any local support in this new part of my life. Homeschooling is something that has already changed my life and my relationships with my children greatly and I wouldn't give it up for the world. Having a place for support is something I feel I need though to be able to be successful at it.

I mentioned in a recent post of mine in another thread that I think the only way any change would come (change was regarding government control issues in the thread I am speaking of) was if all homeschoolers put aside there differences and came together for the purpose. I think that fits here too. I am very different than a lot of people here, I don't share the same beliefs, methods, and/or opinions of many, but that doesn't matter to me. I wanted to be a part of this community to broaden my horizons to give my children the best and most I can and tap into the minds and lives of people who know more about homeschooling than I do and also to share my knowledge with other people, because even though I have only been homeschooling for a short time I have been a mom all of my adult life Smile.

I just wanted to bring the matter up in the hopes that it might help people remember that we are all different, but regardless of our method of homeschooling, political party, religion, affiliations, opinions, race, gender, age, hair color, and everything in between we all want the same thing, the best for our children's lives and education. Before hitting the submit button think about who you might be singling out and if you really want to.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People fit other people into various slots (older people, younger people, whites, blacks, public schoolers, homeschoolers, etc) because that's the only way to make sense of the world. You try to extrapolate your past experiences into future expectations, and if you end up doing a bad job with that, it's only because you don't have enough experiences to work with. Are all stereotypes incorrect? Only if you inflexibly apply them to individuals.

While there has been a fair bit of heated debate in the forum, I haven't seen much attacking of people, just ideas. If you see something you don't agree with, feel free to say so - don't stop just because the majority disagrees. Truth is truth. Best example of this would be knobren, who apparently never gives up - not that I'm saying she's necessarily correct, just outnumbered. Smile
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4given
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is much diversity here. I want to assure you that you do "fit". While there may have been a few posters here and there that intended to offend, imo, the majority here are not of that heart. This is a great place to share and hear differing opinions without walking on egg shells. I admit that when I first came to this forum, I tended to take things personally. People are people. We are very different and yet the same in so many ways.
Without knowing specifically what it is that you perceive separates you, I can only offer limited encouragement. I'm trying my best at this late hour to convey that you do have a place here. That you have something to offer that no one else here has. So do I, and the next person and the next.

Well, I feel that I am rambling. Maybe I'll take a fresh look at this thread tomorrow and have something more purposeful to share.
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laurabeth
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
People fit other people into various slots (older people, younger people, whites, blacks, public schoolers, homeschoolers, etc) because that's the only way to make sense of the world. You try to extrapolate your past experiences into future expectations, and if you end up doing a bad job with that, it's only because you don't have enough experiences to work with. Are all stereotypes incorrect? Only if you inflexibly apply them to individuals.


But see that is my point, I don't think anyone has enough experience to lump every single homeschooler for example into one slot because regardless of how much they think they know they don't know every homeschooler. The same goes for all of these "slots", it is very unfair to lump people that way because there are always exceptions to the "rule".

Are all stereotypes incorrect? I guess that depends on your definition. I guess the issue is misuse of stereotype. To say for instance "all public schoolers go to public school" ok that seems like a fair statement, but to say "all public schoolers are completely uneducated" that is in no way shape or form a fair statement. The latter is what I speak of.

Theodore wrote:

While there has been a fair bit of heated debate in the forum, I haven't seen much attacking of people, just ideas. If you see something you don't agree with, feel free to say so - don't stop just because the majority disagrees. Truth is truth. Best example of this would be knobren, who apparently never gives up - not that I'm saying she's necessarily correct, just outnumbered. Smile



I agree as far as far as attacking of people, I don't see people attacking people, I see people attacking ideas too, but when an idea is attacked and it is said that "this type of person" thinks this or does this etc, and you are "that type of person" it is in a way a personal attack though not directed at you, if that makes sense. Every person that "attacks" homeschooling isn't necessarily attacking the people who do it, but the idea. does that make it any better to you? If someone says to you during a conversation "homeschooling is not healthy for children, nothing personal on you though" is that ok? They aren't attacking you personally just the "idea".

Personally In a lot of the threads I read I agree with a lot of views and opinions, and I don't have a problem being a minority opinion wise anyways. Thats part of what bothers me. I view a lot of things the same as many here even though it seems I am different as far as religious views, political party, family life in general etc. and to keep seeing those parts of me brought up as "people who have this view or that" is where the issue is for me. It is really hard to explain well without saying specifics about who said what and I don't want to do that so I do hope this makes sense.

I am really not looking for sympathy or anything, my whole point in this was that being who we are, and dealing so much with people lumping us for homeschooling, we should all think about the lumping of others. I don't plan on leaving or sparing anyone my opinions when I see fit to share lol, I just thought it was important to bring this up.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are all stereotypes incorrect? I guess that depends on your definition. I guess the issue is misuse of stereotype. To say for instance "all public schoolers go to public school" ok that seems like a fair statement, but to say "all public schoolers are completely uneducated" that is in no way shape or form a fair statement. The latter is what I speak of.


How about if you say that "most public schoolers are badly educated" or "public schoolers, as a group, are badly educated"? This could in fact be true, and probably is, but the minority of public schoolers who got a good education at a good public school may still find it offensive. My problem is that it's impossible to debate without speaking about groups, since you can't give an opinion on millions of individuals, so there will always be people who don't fit into whatever you're saying. The intention is not to insult these people, but it happens anyway.

I'll just have to work on being nice Smile I'm a very aggressive debater by nature, and sometimes a little of that leaks out.
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laurabeth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
Quote:
Are all stereotypes incorrect? I guess that depends on your definition. I guess the issue is misuse of stereotype. To say for instance "all public schoolers go to public school" ok that seems like a fair statement, but to say "all public schoolers are completely uneducated" that is in no way shape or form a fair statement. The latter is what I speak of.


How about if you say that "most public schoolers are badly educated" or "public schoolers, as a group, are badly educated"? This could in fact be true, and probably is, but the minority of public schoolers who got a good education at a good public school may still find it offensive. My problem is that it's impossible to debate without speaking about groups, since you can't give an opinion on millions of individuals, so there will always be people who don't fit into whatever you're saying. The intention is not to insult these people, but it happens anyway.

I'll just have to work on being nice Smile I'm a very aggressive debater by nature, and sometimes a little of that leaks out.


Saying "most public schoolers" is better than saying "all public schoolers" but why not just say "the public schoolers who are badly educated.....". In a statement like that you are only including the ones who in fact are. I do understand that talking about groups is unavoidable, but if you make those groups defined better less offense will be taken.
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laurabeth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to add, being an aggressive debater is not a bad thing, I love debate and I think not only does it broaden the horizons of the debaters but also the audience. Like I said earlier, I don't think you or anyone else was trying to insult any individual and they may very well be correct that the vast majority of "x" is "y", its just that when you are "x" and not "y" it is unsettling to see that you are thought to be "y". I guess the biggest reason I brought it up in this manner is because I don't want to be grouped in with the rest of the "x" who think "y" if I do bring up the specifics and treated differently because of it. I may be the exception to many "rules" but if people think so little of "x" I would rather that part of me stay anonymous than have my valid opinions, suggestions, comments, etc. invalidated because I am part of the dreaded "x". kwim?
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4given
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really trying to understand what you mean but I don't get it. If you are x and that makes people think you are y, then clearly explain that you are not y. Or do I not get it at all? There are hundreds of people on this board and ALL of them are very different. It's almost as if you are stereotyping by assuming that x group is thinking you are y. I don't know. If I'm completely off, please help me to understand. In writing this, I fear that I could be offending you all over again. This is not at all my intention. I just want to understand what you are trying to convey.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If x implies y, and you're x, then you must be y. The problem is that you're x but not y, so you try to hide the x so people won't assume you're y.

Simple! Smile
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laurabeth
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4given wrote:
I'm really trying to understand what you mean but I don't get it. If you are x and that makes people think you are y, then clearly explain that you are not y. Or do I not get it at all? There are hundreds of people on this board and ALL of them are very different. It's almost as if you are stereotyping by assuming that x group is thinking you are y. I don't know. If I'm completely off, please help me to understand. In writing this, I fear that I could be offending you all over again. This is not at all my intention. I just want to understand what you are trying to convey.


I am glad you posted I don't want to be misunderstood and I know I am not doing well at trying to explain this lol. Ok hypothetically speaking: If I am a democrat ok, and someone posts saying "all democrats think homeschool should be banned" and lets say for arguments sake that most do, well I don't think that way so to have that said it makes me feel like I may be in the wrong place. So I may not want to "admit" now that I am a democrat because I think people will think I am one of the "bad" people. Like I said hypothetical, but maybe that will make more sense than x and y lol.

Really I am not all that offended, I more so just don't know whether to feel comfortable "letting go" with who I am 100% and I think it will put others off too to see so much stereotyping. I just think throwing stereotypes around should be thought about before they are used, because they are alienating.

I really debated even posting my initial post in this thread, I don't want to be a "black sheep" or cause problems, I just want to have some online friends for support and such and I really almost didn't post this but I do think it is important. I hope it makes a little more sense now, if not let me know I will try again lol!
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4given
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh. Why didn't I get that?

Laurabeth, I'd say shout from the rooftops that you are x but not y!...whatever that is.
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Calleigh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to butt in here, because I've been following this thread feeling like I'm in a math story problem gone really bad! Wink

I think it is like anywhere else in the world here in that some people would perhaps look at you as a "bad" one,(for whatever reasons) and others would accept you as you are. Even though we are all just a bunch of letters on a screen in here, we are still people. So be yourself as much as you would if you were in a room with these people, ya know? Some will offend, some won't. The thing is, is that the ones who don't care whether or not they offend you still won't care even though you posted this.

On the other hand, you can't expect people not to post their true feelings for fear of offending. If they are, for example, having an opinion on democrats (I only use this because you did), then they should be able to give that opinion. This is a pretty mild forum, I think, compared to most that I've seen. People are pretty gentle even with their opinions.

Just my two cents.

Calleigh
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to start using "conservative" and "liberal" rather than "Republican" and "Democrat" because both parties seem to act more or less the same way when it comes to pork barrel projects, lobbyists, etc. It's only evil behavior when the other side is in power and doing it, then the objections disappear when your side takes over.

I very much wish that it were possible to elect third-party candidates, but it seems impossible for a third-party candidate to win without hundreds of millions of dollars, which means either a massive private fortune or making deals with at least some of the lobbies. Reason: So many people are badly educated these days that they'll believe anything they hear on TV, so massive TV campaigns are necessary for a win. I doubt more than a small minority of the voting population actually bothers to research candidates on their own before voting.
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but even then all Libertarians are feeling left out of the conversation. Razz
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Calleigh
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's only evil behavior when the other side is in power and doing it, then the objections disappear when your side takes over.


That is such a good point!! I have often found myself doing that. Almost like, "Ha ha, it our turn now!" Razz

Calleigh
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