Homeschool World Forums     Home     Mall     Catalog     Articles     Contests     Events     Groups     Forum     Contact  
Homeschool World Forum Forum Index Homeschool World Forum
Read thousands of forum posts on topics such as homeschool law, getting started, curriculum, special needs, homeschool vs public school, and much, much more!
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Vouchers: Good or Bad?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Homeschool World Forum Forum Index -> Homeschool vs Public School
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Sakmeht
User


Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Vouchers: Good or Bad? Reply with quote

I have been all for vouchers for some time, then came across these two articles, both of which are found on hslda's website. They make good arguments... just interested in what everyone thinks!

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000002/00000251.asp

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200207020.asp

Sarita
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Theodore
Moderator


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 2122
Location: Missouri, US

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has to be looked at from the viewpoint of the taxpayer, though, not so much from the benefit of the gov't.

$20 billion to $33 billion for students currently attending private schools who would also be eligible for vouchers;

People in private schools (or homeschools) are currently paying taxes to support a school system they are getting very little benefit from. Costs may be redistributed somewhat, but overall, taxpayers will end up paying less, since there will be the same number of students, but competition will drive school costs per student down. People using private schools will no longer have to pay both school taxes and the full private school fee, and homeschoolers can form their own schools and get paid something to do so. The only group of people who will do slightly worse is public schoolers, who are currently using our money to fund their schools - rather unfair imho. Bottom line, this is a non-issue.

$42 billion for transportation, since a greater number of students would attend schools outside their neighborhoods. In Cleveland’s voucher experiment, Levin found that approximately 1,100 students take taxicabs to school, accounting for $9,900 of public funds every week;

This is based off the assumption that we will continue with the current system of a few massively oversized schools, rather than move to the previous system of many smaller schools. Test scores can be directly correlated to the size of a school (and by extension, class sizes), and also to how early kids have to get up to go to school (to drive for an hour plus to get there), so when the voucher system is officially introduced and schools have to compete with one another, you'll see many smaller local schools start up. This should significantly reduce travel costs, and $42 billion is therefore a much exaggerated figure. There are also other ways to reduce travel costs, like offering incentives to people who don't have access to the primary bus routes to do the driving themselves, that can further cut costs.

$2.5 billion for maintaining school attendance records, and certifying and monitoring the voucher schools;

$1.8 billion to inform families about the schools available to them; and

$1.8 billion for settling disputes involving students who want to change schools or schools that want to expel students.


Not all of these costs are necessary, but in any case, they're relatively insignificant.

The bottom line is that US public education is crud, vouchers are a way to massively improve it, and the cost to taxpayers as a group shouldn't increase. I really don't see a downside here. Given, tax credits would be even better, but I highly doubt we'll ever see anything like that put through, since not only would tax credits reduce government control over anyone not in the public school system, but people in the public school system would have to pay more of the cost themselves, while not getting any benefit out of it. Given a choice between school vouchers and no change at all, I'll take school vouchers every time.

I'm interested to hear your response.
_________________
Homeschool Articles - Events - Support Groups
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
milehimom
User


Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm new to this voucher idea so help me understand because I don't get it. Is it true that a voucher would allow taxpayers who are not using public schools, but private would get to direct that tax money away from their local public school to a private school of their choosing? The logic being that they would be paying taxes for a school they aren't using?

So, what about taxpayers who don't have children? Or taxpayers whose children are grown. Wouldn't the same logic hold that they shouldn't pay the 'school' tax at all?

It seems to me that providing free public education is the responsibility of all taxpayers. It is certainly to the taxpayers benefit that ALL children have access to an education as these will be our future leaders, doctors, lawyers, teachers, and carpenters. If we argue that only those that use it pay for it.... things would get a little complicated. Am I looking at this issue too simply?
_________________
milehimom
Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Martha
User


Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have a great point, Milehimom. One of my husbands biggest arguements (believe it or not) about homeschooling is that we pay taxes to the school district. (No worries, I proceed to tell him that so do my parents and all others who have no children or are retired etc.)

I do think it'd be great for parents with homeschooled (or private school for that matter) would be able to get a "credit" type thing on their tax returns. We could use that money to buy the curriculum for the following year. There may already be something along those lines that I am unaware of. (If so please fill me in Wink )

Anyway...I think that making district taxes vanish for those not "using" it would DEFINATELY cause more trouble...they'd have to get that money from somewhere else...which means they would be raising taxes from somewhere else. They will get the money one way or another. KWIM?
_________________
Martha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Theodore
Moderator


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 2122
Location: Missouri, US

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is not to have people who aren't benefiting from the public school system stop paying taxes (that isn't going to happen), but rather to allow people who aren't benefiting from the public school system to reroute their tax money somewhere more applicable. If 50 families in your area are fed up with the school system, just start your own one-room school and use voucher money to pay for teachers, or apply the money towards a private school, or if you feel so inclined, move your kids to a different public school. The result of all this would be to force schools to actually focus on education rather than liberal idiocies, since producing bad results means you immediately lose all your funding. Parents would hold the power, not the teachers' unions (which good teachers view as a hindrance rather than a help).

To be honest, I don't forsee any form of tax credits for homeschooling happening any time soon, since it's too easy for unscrupulous people to exploit the system unless the gov't is constantly inspecting homeschools. But there are many homeschool co-ops that could be expanded into schools, and I'm sure many new schools would open that are staffed by homeschoolers.
_________________
Homeschool Articles - Events - Support Groups
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Martha
User


Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok..I see now...

How confusing. LOL.

Part of me wants to welcome the idea, then part of me wants to say no to the idea. I think I'm scared that if they start looking too close at homeschooling then we will just get more restrictions and not the other way around. LOL...Anyway...Thanks for explaining it like that for me! Smile
_________________
Martha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ScottHughes
User


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of vouchers, I'd like to see student loans. If the education is worth the money, then the students will be able to pay back the loans when they are older, employed and using the education they received. A loan system doesn't need to be continually funded, since it would actually have no net cost. Plus, the loans could have interest.

I don't think anyone has the right to rob me or any other citizen to pay for their child's education, even if they use the government to do the robbing. Calling it 'taxation' changes nothing but the name.
_________________
Unschooling | Education Forums | Philosophy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Theodore
Moderator


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 2122
Location: Missouri, US

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're already being robbed to fund other people's education. That isn't going to change, the gov't never gives up control of something once it has it. What we can do, however, is apply the money in a more useful manner and put it under local control. In the long run, competition always improves quality while reducing costs, and I think you'll see a return to community schools under a voucher system.

Practically speaking, the consequence of people having to pay for their own education through student loans would be (a) lots less people getting an education and (b) the taxpayer still footing a large portion the bill, since where do you think the money for those loans comes from? That's right, the taxpayer pays the inflation / interest on the loans, and the entire balance as well if the person defaults.
_________________
Homeschool Articles - Events - Support Groups
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Dolly-VA
User


Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottHughes wrote:
I don't think anyone has the right to rob me or any other citizen to pay for their child's education, even if they use the government to do the robbing. Calling it 'taxation' changes nothing but the name.

I have to admit I was floored that someone could truly believe something like this in our country today, but it did make me think! Laughing

So, I looked up what countries there are in the world today that do NOT provide a free elementary level education for their children. One of the great things about being educated and from a country where we make many times the world average mininum wage is that we can move. Cool Enjoy!

http://www.right-to-education.org/content/tables/table_01.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Homeschool World Forum Forum Index -> Homeschool vs Public School All times are GMT - 6 Hours (CST)
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

Homeschool World Terms of Use  •  Privacy Policy  •  Copyright ©1993-Now Home Life, Inc.