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Are our kids really safe in the public schools?
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ScottHughes
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Joined: 04 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

From my school years I would have to say that this statement is way off of the mark.
What I found was not that they chose not to go after the thick-skinned folks,
but they rather chose not to go after the folks who would beat the tar out of them.

of course, teaching your child to do that will get them expelled these days...
which, all in all might not be a bad thing as it would lead to homeschooling them. Smile

There's a strong correlation between who's confident and who can beat a bully in a fight. Nonetheless, I found that bullies wouldn't bully anyone who fought back, regardless of who would win in such a fight. Still, 'standing up for oneself' very rarely ever involved actual fist-fighting.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottHughes wrote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
I expect he'd be asking himself whether he wants to play outside or watch Spongebob or something to that effect. I'll repeat myself slowly - kids. are. not. very. self-aware. Why would you expect them to sit down and have deep thoughts over why they're being bullied?

I highly doubt that if you hit a kid with a stick he'll think about Spongebob. Even my dog tries to figure out what's going on when I just say "bad dog."


No, but he also won't be engaging in deep thinking about what he did to make you hit him with a stick and LOL dogs do not think about why you yell at them. I'm a dog behaviorist and I can definately tell you dogs do not analyze your or their behavior. They act on training and instinct alone and the only thing scolding them does is make them cower in submission. They know the alpha is mad - they don't know why nor do they sit there trying to figure it out. They submit to their alpha until the dust settles.

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Where exactly did anyone say they were in favor of coddling their children? Who says homeschoolers coddle their children? Do you honestly think we're following our kids around with their blankies and a box of Kleenex waiting for the next catastrophe? Teaching a child how to handle bullies is exactly what most of us do - we do it in a controlled environment though instead of throwing them to the wolves and letting them work it out on their own.

I never said homeschoolers coddle their children. In fact, I support homeschooling over public schooling. However, pulling a kid out of school for the sole reason that he is getting bullied qualifies as 'coddling' in my English.


Ok and it qualifies as a good reason for some other parents. Who are you to judge?

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If I get bullied at work, I don't go get a support group, I go get a lawyer. I feel bad for people who are bullied, but I think we went over the fact that people need to stand up for themselves. I'd wager that the vast majority of these people went to public school, but may or may not have been bullied as kids. Seems like that "send them to public school so they can learn how to deal with bullies" mentality worked out so well for them, didn't it?

Again, I was referring to the particular situation of this thread - whether or not to pull a kid out of school and homeschool solely because the kid is getting bullied. Nonetheless, I'd wager that per capita homeschooled kids do get bullied more at work than others; not that I see any relevance.


I'd definately like to see some proof to back that statement up given the number of homeschooled adults there are in the work force.

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I agree and where did any of us say that that's not what we're doing as homeschoolers? Just because we dont' toss them into the pack, doesn't mean we're not teaching them how to deal with bullies. Let's think past our own pre-judgements, please?

Well, if you send your kid to school and he ends up being one of the kids in the minority who get bullied, then obviously you did not teach him to deal with bullies at home. Thus, I highly doubt he'll learn how to deal with bullies at home.


Well, why should parents teach their kids to deal with it at home? You said yourself that
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Your child has to learn to stand up for himself. He needs to ask himself, why are these bullies targeting me? There's no excuse for bullying, but there will always be bullies - not only in school, but also in life. However, not everyone gets bullied. Your child has to change his own behavior to avoid getting bullied, picked on, and victimized in life.

Perhaps, it's even better to leave your child in school to learn these skills. I'm not a fan of public schools, but that is one of the advantages: socialization. People need to learn how to function with other people healthily. The rough social situations at public schools are a learning experience.


If school is such a learning experience, how can parents compare and why should they send their kids to school prepared for bullying when, IYO, school is such a valuable education in bullying?

I don't care who you are, kids do not enter school knowing how to deal with bullies and bullying isn't even that big of an issue until later grades. Given the amount of time kids are at school/away from their parents each day, parents have a slim chance of adequately preparing their kids for bullying - reading about the topic, role playing, otherwise preparing their kids on how to deal with it. Being thrown into the path of a bully doesn't teach them to deal with the situation any more than standing in a pool makes you a swimmer.

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Again, I say, who says we're not teaching kids how to deal with bullies?

Not me. I said that parents of the minority of kids who get bullied won't solve the child's root problem by simply keeping him home. In fact, I think they'll make it worse.


Enabling the child to learn in peace and develop self-confidence and self-esteem independent of being pounded on day in and day out - self-confidence that will teach him what behavior he deserves and which behavior he does not. Yeah, sure sounds like a disservice to me.

Bullying is put to an end first and foremost by a child standing up for himself and saying 'I don't deserve this - I will not allow you to treat me like this". That mentality and the skills that go with asserting oneself take time and love to develop. Kids are not taught self-confidence and self-reliance in the public schools, they're taught reliance on praise bits and approval from teachers and other adults there. Dependence on the adults there does not help a child who has a bully breathing down his neck.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well answered Calla_Dragon

Mark
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Aspie
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.


Is your kid safe?

No.


Was I safe?

No
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that school administrators aren't allowed to dish out any form of punishment except detention and expelling kids from school, therefore they're pretty much powerless to stop bullies. Some don't even bother to try. That leaves things up to the kids, but now that a "zero tolerance" policy is in place, kids can't even fight bullies to get them to stop, since both kids may be expelled if they get caught, not just the bully. What this means is that bullies can basically do anything they want short of murder with very little threat of retribution, and tend to end up criminals as a result - since nobody taught them better while they were young. Violence is not always the answer, or even usually the answer, but there are a few occasions where a little pain is the best deterrent.

The question is, does getting beat up every day at school make you stronger or just hurt? No, you're not likely to be attacked if you're surrounded by an aura that says you'd be perfectly happy to beat down any attacker who's stupid enough to try, but there are lots of kids with a more sensitive personality, and it's better to give those kids time to mature, rather than hoping that their personality won't get crushed.

Bottom line, I'd say that fear of potential bullying is not sufficient reason for not using the public schools, but if your kid is being constantly picked on there, the best thing to do is remove him from that environment, at least until high school age.

Note to everyone posting in the thread - try to keep things relatively civil Smile
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
since both kids may be expelled if they get caught, not just the bully.


Because we all know that how effective of a punishment it is to tell a kid he can't come to school...... *gasp* oh no!! Rolling Eyes

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Theodore
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. The bully gets a reward out of it, not a punishment. Now if the penalty were that he had to get up several hours earlier than everyone else and scrub every toilet in the school, that would be memorable Smile
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Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool I like that idea Theodore.
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mom2five
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a ridiculous debate. Being bullied helps kids learn how to deal with bullies? Yes, all you have to do is look at the school shooters. They certainly took care of the people that bullied them, but that's not exactly the path I want my children to take. I'm considering taking my 7 year old son out of public school. I can tell you why he's the victim of bullies. He gets good grades and that makes the little bullies from the housing project look bad. He's shy and well behaved and doesn't engage in the disruption of the classroom. He's interested in animals and history and reading instead of the latest cable TV show or trashy rapper or latest sports star, so he's not cool enough. I don't want my son to have to change who he is or what he likes just so he can fit in with kids I would never want him to be like. He should not have to deal with that as a young child just learning who he is.
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Tomjames
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Stop Bullies! Reply with quote

During my 2-3-year experience homeschooling, I've realized there's not another way to avoid bullies and educating your kids at the same time than homeschooling, besides it makes self-control and self-confidence grow stronger allowing the kids to take seriously their responsabilities and constructing stronger family ties.
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