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Avoidance
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keptwoman
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Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carsmom wrote:
I do think that homeschooling can and in a lot of cases does cause children to have difficulties socially. As does public school, but that is not what I am arguing. I only know three children who are homeschooled, all have trouble interacting with children and do not respect figures of authority outside of their parents. If I were from a large city, I may feel completely different about homeschooling.


I agree that homeschooling could cause children to have difficulties socially. However, in my experience meeting probably more than 100 homeschooled kids by now, the ones who have difficulty socially are the exception rather than the rule. For the most part they have been polite and well mannered and more conversational with the adults around them than most school children I know.

I guess I live in a city with LOTS of opportunities to socialise with other kids at home-ed classes and excursions so maybe that makes a difference when compared with a smaller place, I don't know. We do one home-ed creative arts class a week and have at least two opportunities a week to go on learning or social outings. This is on top of our normal non home-ed specific activities. For us the issue is choosing what opportunities to take and still have time for learning rather than hunting them out. It's a balancing act.

I have also now sat and observed 4 seperate "class" situations where home-ed kids were being taught by an adult other than their parents. In those 4 situations with maybe a total of 60 different kids, I can remember 3 on one particular outing who were just plain rude in terms of respecting the person talking to them. The rest the children have been respectful of the adults.

The social aspect is probably the single most misunderstood aspect of home-ed from people who are not involved in home-ed. Certainly it was one of my main concerns when I started looking into home-ed 10 months ago, but my concerns in that area have been well and truely laid to rest.
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4given
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Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 735
Location: S.Indiana

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carsmom wrote:
I only know three children who are homeschooled, all have trouble interacting with children and do not respect figures of authority outside of their parents.


I'd be curious what your idea of trouble is in this case. Are they taking toys away, not talking to the other children, rudely taking over conversations? Can you be sure that trouble interacting can be directly linked to HS? The general public would not blame PS when a PSer has trouble interacting. I think most oftentimes, the parents are blamed. I think HS is the easy target whenever dealing with HSers. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to point the finger at personality type or upbringing.

Just to state the obvious, I'm sure you realize that experience with 3 HSers does not give a fair portrayal of all HSers. If I only knew of 3 PSers and I made assumptions about all PSers based on those three, you may think I was being ridiculously narrow-minded. You would be right!
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Calla_Dragon
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Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 212

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I only know three children who are homeschooled, all have trouble interacting with children and do not respect figures of authority outside of their parents.


I can name a lot more publicly schooled kids for whom that statement is true. Just about every public school kid I run into can have that statement applied to them. Due to the amount of diverse activities my son is in with both public school kids and other homeschool kids, I've found a common thread. The quote above is more often the rule for public school kids whereas it's usually the exception for homeschooled kids. There is a marked difference between the two groups of children.
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arewethereyet
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A high school in our town has a freshman class with D+ average. 48% of the class has a 6th grade reading level or below, now the school district just wants to shut down the school. Is that avoidance or assistance?

We chose to homeschool for religious convictions, not because of bullying or failure. However, how could it be avoidance if my child was behind in a subject to pull them out of public school and teach them at home? In an arena where they would receive one on one tutoring I see great benefits. In a classroom the teacher may not have the time to slow down the pace for one individual student.

I believe you will find the reasons for homeschooling extremely varied. Bullying and failure, in my discussions, are a small percentage. You might consider contacting a local homeschool support group so that you could view more than 3 homeschool students. They are, after all, children and behaviors and personalities run the gamut. Three is not enough to make generalizations.

As far as college is concerned, most I've look into do not require GED for homeschoolers. They look at transcripts and ACT/SAT scores. There is usually a section on that in the FAQ on most college websites.
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Ceres
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 23
Location: The Prairie State

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carsmom wrote:
I am really a college student doing research, to clear up any doubt, and I will present this week. My purpose here is to collect information and opinions about homeschooling, from someone who is homeschooled or chooses to homeschool their children. My assignment has been to argue the social inadequacies of homeschooling. My question was about avoiding issues, and when the use of the word avoidance was questioned it became more opinionated, on my part, than I intended. I do think that homeschooling can and in a lot of cases does cause children to have difficulties socially. As does public school, but that is not what I am arguing. I only know three children who are homeschooled, all have trouble interacting with children and do not respect figures of authority outside of their parents. If I were from a large city, I may feel completely different about homeschooling.

As for hiding abuse, it does occur. I am in no way saying that everyone who homeschools has something to hide. And not everyone takes their children to the doctor.

momo3boys, I agree that parents sending their kids to school because they do not know how to deal with them are avoiding the issue, thank you for that point. Do you feel in anyway that homeschooling can be a way of avoiding issues at school. And how could this affect your children later on?


I posted a link in "Getting Started" that might interest you, in dealing with with the "socialization" issue. I think the thread was "Convincing My Husband" (or something very close to that).
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StellarStory
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 472

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do I think addressing problems (whether these problems are with the school, the child or a bit a both,) with working solutions is avoiding them?

No.
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sevenkidsisgreat
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Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you should also look into WHY do children bully. Mostly it is latent anger for having their creative selves killed in the public school system. They are lashing out at whoever is closest, their peers. Most of us, even though bullying may have been a factor, choose to school our children at home because they are getting a superior education. My daughter was bullied in kindergarten and on the bus but the real reason we pulled her out was she was unable to learn to read using the failed look/say method of reading instruction. Learning can not take place when you are afraid and if that is termed avoidance, then so be it. Why is it that when violence to children is in the home is requires removal of the child but when it happens in school it is called avoidance of character building when a parent removes them. Seems a bit hypocritical, don't you think.

Cheryl
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StellarStory
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullying wasn't a factor in our decision btw.
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L1Bailey
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007
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Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Un/Home Schooling Reply with quote

I think it's safe to say that the "Post-er" expected to ruffle feathers. That is good! Congratulations.
I feel that I wear some unschooling "war-wounds" after embarking on this unknown journey with my stepson (who has Asperger's and a severe Hearing Impairment) almost 5 years ago. He was definately "bullied" at public school until age 9, and he also had the language ability of an 18 month old child, at best (at age 9)....though the public school system seemed OKAY with that and passed him on year after year. At that time, I worked with, and also fought, the "school" system for nearly a year after discovering my stepson's challenges. The 'school' system encouraged us to "homeschool" when I called in enough ammo of counselors, speech therapists, etc. Public & Private School had no clue how to encourage our son's gifted artistic and scientific abilities....whilst creatively progessing his language and mathematic skills. We then dove into homeschooling at the same time we quickly had three babies (and evacuated from hurricane katrina whilst pregnant with baby #3 at 8 months). Unschooling became a natural option for our son.
Several Years later..........we find ourselves residents in London.....and our now 14 year old son is still unschooling. He has a portfolio that he's created of his own of inventions, universe theories and electro magnetic diagrams that rival that of mr. Davinci.......or mr. Hawkins.......and that would peak the interest of mr. Einstein if he were alive today (I say this as a stepmum who admires her stepson at same time she is also annoyed by her stepson).......... I breathe easy knowing that he is not bullied by the wimps in public school who take their frustrations out on the children the maintream labels as 'weak'. Our son left those bullies behind years ago, and as a mother, I find myself hoping that the parents of those bullies wake up and give their children the attention they are craving. My husband and I could care less that our son, or our other younger children, "learn" how to mingle with the mainstream. We just want them to make friends with each other and with other's as they feel comfortable......(isn't that what friendship is about?)......... I hope that they remain ignorant of such maintstream, and when introduced at various times, that they simply connect to it or walk away. It's really not my business when all is said and done. It's my children's business and I can honestly say that I have not mapped out their destiny to ensure that they "fit in" with mainstream society at some point in their lives. I do hope that they challenge it and will also recognise ignorance when faced with it, and respond accordingly.
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StellarStory
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 472

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Un/Home Schooling Reply with quote

L1Bailey wrote:
I think it's safe to say that the "Post-er" expected to ruffle feathers. That is good! Congratulations.
I feel that I wear some unschooling "war-wounds" after embarking on this unknown journey with my stepson (who has Asperger's and a severe Hearing Impairment) almost 5 years ago. He was definately "bullied" at public school until age 9, and he also had the language ability of an 18 month old child, at best (at age 9)....though the public school system seemed OKAY with that and passed him on year after year. At that time, I worked with, and also fought, the "school" system for nearly a year after discovering my stepson's challenges. The 'school' system encouraged us to "homeschool" when I called in enough ammo of counselors, speech therapists, etc. Public & Private School had no clue how to encourage our son's gifted artistic and scientific abilities....whilst creatively progessing his language and mathematic skills. We then dove into homeschooling at the same time we quickly had three babies (and evacuated from hurricane katrina whilst pregnant with baby #3 at 8 months). Unschooling became a natural option for our son.
Several Years later..........we find ourselves residents in London.....and our now 14 year old son is still unschooling. He has a portfolio that he's created of his own of inventions, universe theories and electro magnetic diagrams that rival that of mr. Davinci.......or mr. Hawkins.......and that would peak the interest of mr. Einstein if he were alive today (I say this as a stepmum who admires her stepson at same time she is also annoyed by her stepson).......... I breathe easy knowing that he is not bullied by the wimps in public school who take their frustrations out on the children the maintream labels as 'weak'. Our son left those bullies behind years ago, and as a mother, I find myself hoping that the parents of those bullies wake up and give their children the attention they are craving. My husband and I could care less that our son, or our other younger children, "learn" how to mingle with the mainstream. We just want them to make friends with each other and with other's as they feel comfortable......(isn't that what friendship is about?)......... I hope that they remain ignorant of such maintstream, and when introduced at various times, that they simply connect to it or walk away. It's really not my business when all is said and done. It's my children's business and I can honestly say that I have not mapped out their destiny to ensure that they "fit in" with mainstream society at some point in their lives. I do hope that they challenge it and will also recognise ignorance when faced with it, and respond accordingly.


That's a wonderfully inspiring and thought provoking post!

Congrats on your journey with your son! It sounds like it was the right choice and things are going very well!
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Ceres
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 23
Location: The Prairie State

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this today on MSN.com: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20146910/
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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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