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Are our kids really safe in the public schools?
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wrightno
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Are our kids really safe in the public schools? Reply with quote

MY SON IS IN GRADE K.HE ALLWAYS COMES HOME FROM SCHOOL SAD.KIDS ARE MEAN TO HIM,AT LUNCH HE SAID THEY THROW FOOD AT HIM.HE CAME HOME WITH A BURN MARK ON HIS HAND,ONE OF THE KIDS BROUGHT TO SCHOOL HIS BROTHERS LIGHTER.MY SON SAID THE KID BURNED HIS HAND WITH THE LIGHTER I AM SO SO UP SET.I LIVE IN ST.AUGUSTINE FLORIDA.PARENTS ARE OUR KIDS REALLY SAFE IN SCHOOL?
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Mark
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

in your case, what matters is: is YOUR child safe in school.

that is the question you must answer.


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wrightno
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: hello Reply with quote

THAT IS SO TRUE.WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HOMESCHOOLING VS.PUBLIC SCHOOL?
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4given
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: hello Reply with quote

wrightno wrote:
WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT HOMESCHOOLING VS.PUBLIC SCHOOL?


I have 4 sons. The two oldest each spent 2 years in the PS System. I watched my oldest change from a carefree and confident young man to a weighed-down and worried boy. The next-born son transformed from thoughtful and kind to "ready to fight". Needless to say, I was horrified and heart-broken. I could see my sons growing apart everyday.

HSing is not without its challenges, but the benefits are far outweighing the struggles. If you desire to HS, I believe you can do it. When you have the "want to", everything else seems to fall into place. You'll have some failures and some great victories-and everything in between. You and your family will grow through it together.

As one of my sons would say...PS--BOO!....HS--YAY!

Sheila in IN
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wrightno
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: HELLO Reply with quote

I AM THINKING OH HOMESCHOOLING MY DAUGHTER FOR 2007-2008 SCHOOL YEAR.HOMESCHOOLING CAN BE DIFFICULT.WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT ON LINE SCHOOLS SUCH AS CONNECTIONS ACADEMY.
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ScottHughes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your child has to learn to stand up for himself. He needs to ask himself, why are these bullies targeting me? There's no excuse for bullying, but there will always be bullies - not only in school, but also in life. However, not everyone gets bullied. Your child has to change his own behavior to avoid getting bullied, picked on, and victimized in life.

Perhaps, it's even better to leave your child in school to learn these skills. I'm not a fan of public schools, but that is one of the advantages: socialization. People need to learn how to function with other people healthily. The rough social situations at public schools are a learning experience.
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angw8
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 5 or 6 year old should not have to learn about bullying.
As an adult I have not had to know how to stand up against the kind of behaviour endured by this child.
As parents we need to protect our children from victimisation.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, no young child is going to sit down with himself and ask "why am I being bullied?" That's not how kids work. They're in the here and now. They know they were bullied, they don't know why, but they do know they feel awful about it. Most adults aren't that self-aware, you can't expect that from a child. It also puts the blame on the child. "I did something to make him bully me so it must be all my fault" That's a load of rubbish. Nobody should have to change how they are because of a bully. That's like saying I should change how I dress because someone made fun of me for it. There is no excuse for bullying..........period.

Kids do need to learn to stand up for themselves, but they do that by gaining self-confidence and self-esteem. That's the stuff that makes a child think they don't deserve to be treated like this and gives them the confidence to speak up. Bullying doesn't magically make a child stand up for himself. In fact, it does the opposite - it beats them into submission, destroys their self-esteem and their self-confidence.

Nowhere in my adult life have I had to put up with bullies. It's not something that's acceptable in the adult world. If you get harassed or assaulted at work, you contact the authorities or human resources and action gets taken. There is no messing around when it comes to harassment in the workplace. If your neighbors starts trying to bully you or hitting you, you can have him arrested for assault and/or battery. It's a complete lie to say that our kids have to learn how to put up with this and that it's acceptable to keep them in school because of it. Sadly, there are enough opportunities for kids to learn how to deal with bullies outside of school. My 6 year old son has run into several bullies at the park during the summer and each time it's a traumatic experience, but a learning experience. (What 6 year old needs to get shoved off the slide? How is that beneficial for their development?) There is no reason and no excuse for knowingly exposing a child to that type of treatment every day. I know for a fact that most bullying goes undealt with by the teachers and school. They're very reluctant to punish offenders by suspension due to that "right to education" crap. Ya know, the junk about every child having a right to an education. Sadly, that crosses over into the mean little monsters having the right to be in the class with the kids who are actually trying to learn and getting abused in the process. Often these kids aren't and cannot be removed from class. They get these cute little punishments like notes sent home to mom and dad and privilidges removed. Please, if they act this horrible in the first place, it's likely that mom and dad don't care so the note does no good and who cares about privilidges when the joy of the reactions you get from the kids you're bullying are so much better. It's a cost-benefit analysis. These bullies know they're going to get punished for doing this, but the screams, crying and fear they instill overcome those punishments. If they didn't, these kids wouldn't be bullying. It wouldn't be worth it to them.

School is NOT the best place for a child who is being bullied. It will greatly increase their chances for more and more issues in the future.

There is a BIG difference between developing a thick skin and having to put up with the abuse of bullying.
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Cally
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If not resolved bullying can set a pattern of hopelessness, and re-enforced victim mentality for most of a childs years. They may, or may not grow out of these things.

Public school by its very rules makes it almost impossible for a child to stand up for themselves. If you override the school rules and tell them to hit back, or stand up for yourself, you gain a sullen child who is going against his own ideals of what is a good citizen.

Many times if a child stands up to a bully then they are not out of the woods. Why is that? The genuine nature of a child is to be loving, so they do the one thing many adults wouldn't do once out of the situation. They reach back, and help the others still being bullied!

In reality children really do live by the code "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." They learn that from us, their parents. They learn it by our example and by our words. Then when the first situation arises of real world experience (the bullying) you either stand, and be counted like most children would for each other or you don't.

If you do stand to say this is not acceptable, and no one helps. Not teachers, not school admin. Not anybody! Then HS-ing is one of your options.

The alternative is seen in schools, in the news, and out of the news, in movies, on web sites, in books, and on the faces of children everywhere! Never has something been so written about, yet so little done!

Each adult has to decide for themselves will they live by example, or will they just put the words out there hoping they stick to the child. By doing nothing, or telling them to stand up for themselves against all odds, the very honor of a parent is at stake.

Actions speak volumes, inaction at this point builds a gap so wide you may never recover with your child. So from here on out when they need you most, they may come to you less because you did nothing.

Making the words "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." very meaningful to your life in a way you had not planned on!
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Mark
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you, Calla-dragon and Cally

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4given
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditto!!!
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ScottHughes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calla_Dragon wrote:
Please, no young child is going to sit down with himself and ask "why am I being bullied?"

What else would he ask himself?

Calla_Dragon wrote:
There is no excuse for bullying..........period.

I agree. There is no excuse for bullying.

Calla_Dragon wrote:
Kids do need to learn to stand up for themselves, but they do that by gaining self-confidence and self-esteem. That's the stuff that makes a child think they don't deserve to be treated like this and gives them the confidence to speak up. Bullying doesn't magically make a child stand up for himself. In fact, it does the opposite - it beats them into submission, destroys their self-esteem and their self-confidence.

Bullying doesn't help a child, but neither does coddling. Unfortunately, we'll never get rid of all the bullies in the world. Instead of pulling the child out of school completely, I recommend teaching the child how to not be the kid who gets bullied.

I find that in a group of kids, there's a few bullies, a few kids who get bullied, and mostly a bunch of kids who don't encounter bullying directly. In my unprofessional opinion, pulling a child out of school will keep him to be the type of child who gets bullied - i.e. passive, unconfident, & unassertive.

Calla_Dragon wrote:
Nowhere in my adult life have I had to put up with bullies. It's not something that's acceptable in the adult world.

You may never have dealt with bullying in your adult life, and that's good. However, there are many people who to get bullied at work. Go do a search through Yahoo groups or something; you'll find a bunch of support groups for people who get bullied at work.

Most people don't get bullied. Most kids don't get bullied. Most people don't bully. Most kids don't bully. I want people and kids who get caught bullying to be criminally detained. As far as kids who get bullied, teaching them the social skills to avoid bullying is what I think is best for the child.

Calla_Dragon wrote:
School is NOT the best place for a child who is being bullied. It will greatly increase their chances for more and more issues in the future.

Well, in my unprofessional opinion, the opposite is true. Taking the child out of school and/or coddling the child will only lead to more issues later in life.

Calla_Dragon wrote:
There is a BIG difference between developing a thick skin and having to put up with the abuse of bullying.

Option 3 is to learn how to not get bullied. Interestingly bullies don't bother going after thick-skinned people. Bullies go after the thin-skinned people. Bullies are sadists. They want to see the pain they cause.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottHughes wrote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
Please, no young child is going to sit down with himself and ask "why am I being bullied?"

What else would he ask himself?


I expect he'd be asking himself whether he wants to play outside or watch Spongebob or something to that effect. I'll repeat myself slowly - kids. are. not. very. self-aware. Why would you expect them to sit down and have deep thoughts over why they're being bullied?

Quote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
Kids do need to learn to stand up for themselves, but they do that by gaining self-confidence and self-esteem. That's the stuff that makes a child think they don't deserve to be treated like this and gives them the confidence to speak up. Bullying doesn't magically make a child stand up for himself. In fact, it does the opposite - it beats them into submission, destroys their self-esteem and their self-confidence.

Bullying doesn't help a child, but neither does coddling. Unfortunately, we'll never get rid of all the bullies in the world. Instead of pulling the child out of school completely, I recommend teaching the child how to not be the kid who gets bullied.


Where exactly did anyone say they were in favor of coddling their children? Who says homeschoolers coddle their children? Do you honestly think we're following our kids around with their blankies and a box of Kleenex waiting for the next catastrophe? Teaching a child how to handle bullies is exactly what most of us do - we do it in a controlled environment though instead of throwing them to the wolves and letting them work it out on their own.

Quote:
I find that in a group of kids, there's a few bullies, a few kids who get bullied, and mostly a bunch of kids who don't encounter bullying directly. In my unprofessional opinion, pulling a child out of school will keep him to be the type of child who gets bullied - i.e. passive, unconfident, & unassertive.


I'm glad that you, at least, recognize that it's your unprofessional opinion. That's what it is - quite unprofessional since you clearly don't have a handle on the fact that there's a wide variety of kids. There are shy kids that are homeschooled, there are assertive, strong-willed kids that are homeschooled and there is every combination inbetween. The same goes for public schools. Generalities are a very dangerous thing and you're exposing your ignorance so you may want to consider your words carefully next time.

Quote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
Nowhere in my adult life have I had to put up with bullies. It's not something that's acceptable in the adult world.

You may never have dealt with bullying in your adult life, and that's good. However, there are many people who to get bullied at work. Go do a search through Yahoo groups or something; you'll find a bunch of support groups for people who get bullied at work.
If I get bullied at work, I don't go get a support group, I go get a lawyer. I feel bad for people who are bullied, but I think we went over the fact that people need to stand up for themselves. I'd wager that the vast majority of these people went to public school, but may or may not have been bullied as kids. Seems like that "send them to public school so they can learn how to deal with bullies" mentality worked out so well for them, didn't it?

Quote:
Most people don't get bullied. Most kids don't get bullied. Most people don't bully. Most kids don't bully. I want people and kids who get caught bullying to be criminally detained. As far as kids who get bullied, teaching them the social skills to avoid bullying is what I think is best for the child.
I agree and where did any of us say that that's not what we're doing as homeschoolers? Just because we dont' toss them into the pack, doesn't mean we're not teaching them how to deal with bullies. Let's think past our own pre-judgements, please?

Quote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
School is NOT the best place for a child who is being bullied. It will greatly increase their chances for more and more issues in the future.

Well, in my unprofessional opinion, the opposite is true. Taking the child out of school and/or coddling the child will only lead to more issues later in life.
I think I already addressed your unprofessional opinion.

Quote:
Calla_Dragon wrote:
There is a BIG difference between developing a thick skin and having to put up with the abuse of bullying.

Option 3 is to learn how to not get bullied. Interestingly bullies don't bother going after thick-skinned people. Bullies go after the thin-skinned people. Bullies are sadists. They want to see the pain they cause.


Again, I say, who says we're not teaching kids how to deal with bullies? Knowing a few homeschoolers who are shy and bullied does not represent the whole of homeschoolers and how we instruct our children.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScottHughes wrote:

Option 3 is to learn how to not get bullied. Interestingly bullies don't bother going after thick-skinned people. Bullies go after the thin-skinned people. Bullies are sadists. They want to see the pain they cause.

From my school years I would have to say that this statement is way off of the mark.
What I found was not that they chose not to go after the thick-skinned folks,
but they rather chose not to go after the folks who would beat the tar out of them.

of course, teaching your child to do that will get them expelled these days...
which, all in all might not be a bad thing as it would lead to homeschooling them. Smile


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ScottHughes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calla_Dragon wrote:
I expect he'd be asking himself whether he wants to play outside or watch Spongebob or something to that effect. I'll repeat myself slowly - kids. are. not. very. self-aware. Why would you expect them to sit down and have deep thoughts over why they're being bullied?

I highly doubt that if you hit a kid with a stick he'll think about Spongebob. Even my dog tries to figure out what's going on when I just say "bad dog."

Quote:
Where exactly did anyone say they were in favor of coddling their children? Who says homeschoolers coddle their children? Do you honestly think we're following our kids around with their blankies and a box of Kleenex waiting for the next catastrophe? Teaching a child how to handle bullies is exactly what most of us do - we do it in a controlled environment though instead of throwing them to the wolves and letting them work it out on their own.

I never said homeschoolers coddle their children. In fact, I support homeschooling over public schooling. However, pulling a kid out of school for the sole reason that he is getting bullied qualifies as 'coddling' in my English.

Quote:
If I get bullied at work, I don't go get a support group, I go get a lawyer. I feel bad for people who are bullied, but I think we went over the fact that people need to stand up for themselves. I'd wager that the vast majority of these people went to public school, but may or may not have been bullied as kids. Seems like that "send them to public school so they can learn how to deal with bullies" mentality worked out so well for them, didn't it?

Again, I was referring to the particular situation of this thread - whether or not to pull a kid out of school and homeschool solely because the kid is getting bullied. Nonetheless, I'd wager that per capita homeschooled kids do get bullied more at work than others; not that I see any relevance.

Quote:
I agree and where did any of us say that that's not what we're doing as homeschoolers? Just because we dont' toss them into the pack, doesn't mean we're not teaching them how to deal with bullies. Let's think past our own pre-judgements, please?

Well, if you send your kid to school and he ends up being one of the kids in the minority who get bullied, then obviously you did not teach him to deal with bullies at home. Thus, I highly doubt he'll learn how to deal with bullies at home.

Quote:
Again, I say, who says we're not teaching kids how to deal with bullies?

Not me. I said that parents of the minority of kids who get bullied won't solve the child's root problem by simply keeping him home. In fact, I think they'll make it worse.

Quote:
Knowing a few homeschoolers who are shy and bullied does not represent the whole of homeschoolers and how we instruct our children.

I agree.
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