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Why I am against Homeschooling
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Against Homeschooling
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Why I am against Homeschooling Reply with quote

Hi.

I was homeschooled up to halfway through tenth grade. Having never been to school, I had no idea what to expect - although I was quite sure by that point that I would enjoy it more than I had enjoyed homeschooling. Why? Because I was lonely. I was absolutely starved for friendship. I don't live out in the boondocks like the stereotypical recluse homeschooler; I simply had no effective way of connecting. Without consistent exposure to peers, I lacked effective social skills. I was a sad, shy person.

Enrolling in school was the best thing that I ever did. I had the good luck of meeting some excellent friends, and I got into good classes. With some hard work, I've developed passable social skills I am very happy with. A year later, I'm enjoying myself like I never had the chance to before.

I wouldn't recommend homeschooling for any children aged higher than primary school, unless as a parent you feel that you can acclimate them to other children their own age on a regular basis. Those bold letters have a lot of feeling behind them. Many times have I heard proud homeschooling parents brag of their children's busy social lives - conveniently not mentioning that these social opportunities occur infrequently, only in structured circumstances, or with children of widely disparate ages. I'm not saying that children of different ages cannot be mixed. I'm saying that healthy children must be exposed to a peer group, and must have friends - real friends with whom they actually want to associate, not kids their parents have picked out for them to be friends with just because they also happen to be homeschooled.

I pick no fights with homeschooling over its academic prowess. It is obviously usually superior to the public school system. I am speaking out against homeschooling because of its utter social inadequacies. Out of the relatively large group of homeschoolers with whom I am acquainted, I do not know a single one who I would classify as well-balanced or well-socialized. Of course, the parents of these poor kids would have you believe otherwise - but you need only sit in on their homeschool meetings to hear the tales of their unfortunate children being socially rejected when they try to mix with kids from the mainstream education system.

Kids need friends. Before you post irate responses to this thread, please think about your children. Regardless of what they tell you, are they happy? Do they have real friends? Think back to your own childhood. Would you have been happy with the degree of exposure to peers that your children have? You might even ask them if they feel able to join a mainstream activity (sports, after-school clubs) and get along with other kids. You might be surprised.

-A happy ex-homeschoooler
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Homeschoolers are not the social rejects... Reply with quote

"...their unfortunate children being socially rejected when they try to mix with kids from the mainstream education system."

What you fail to realize is that one of the primary reasons people homeschool their children is because their children are already being socially rejected by kids from the mainstream education system. Why? Because they're just not interested in the same sorts of things. The public school culture emphasizes looks, sports achievement, a knowledge of popular music, etc. at the cost of education. Homeschoolers often just can't relate to public schoolers, and because they're the minority, they're labeled the rejects rather than the other way around.

Also, what makes you think extracurricular activities are automatically inferior to the "real life" of public school? Sure, if a kid never gets to meet anyone his own age who has the same interests, he's probably not going to be having as much fun as he could, but then again, his peers could just as easily be beating him up and stealing his lunch money. And there are many, many extracurriculars you can do where you will meet kids who have the same interests as you. For instance, my siblings do or have done:

Civil Air Patrol
Boy Scouts
Tae Kwon Do
Swim team (neighborhood and local high school)
Church activities
Volunteering at a local hospital
Assorted math, spelling, etc. competitions

And here's some statistics on homeschooler socialization:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray1997/17.asp

Yes, homeschoolers may not be able to relate to public schoolers (or vice versa), but oddly enough, the same homeschoolers whom you think are so badly adjusted now will probably end up in positions of leadership in college and the business world, where people are more mature and education and imagination are actually appreciated. Their well-adjusted high school peers will be flipping burgers and dreaming about that sports scholarship that got away.

Incidently, what size is your public school, and what is its national ranking? There was an article in Reader's Digest some time ago with statistics showing a direct correlation between the size of a school and its test scores. Smaller schools do significantly better, and I would imagine are also better organized and much more orderly. There's also the matter of neighborhood. Just because your school happens to be nice, doesn't mean schools everywhere else (or the children attending them) are nice too. We get messages all the time from parents whose children have been ignored, abused, and/or labeled as defective and put on drugs. Are you going to tell those kids that they should stay in a public school system that obviously hates them?

EDIT: Also, many homeschoolers use their local high school for some form of extracurricular activity, and take courses at the local community college. Homeschooling does not mean ignoring the outside world; it just means being able to control your schedule and curriculum.
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Against Homeschooling
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What you fail to realize is that one of the primary reasons people homeschool their children is because their children are already being socially rejected by kids from the mainstream education system. Why? Because they're just not interested in the same sorts of things.


I'm glad you raised that point. Social problems in school are in my opinion one of very few valid reasons that parents should consider to homeschool. What is wrong is removing these kids permanently or for an extended period. If a kid is having trouble and the school isn't willing to help, by all means, take them out of school for a while and give the child's peers (or the child themself) time to mature. If things don't work out on a second attempt, look into other options.

Quote:
For instance, my siblings do or have done:

Civil Air Patrol
Boy Scouts
Tae Kwon Do
Swim team (neighborhood and local high school)
Church activities
Volunteering at a local hospital
Assorted math, spelling, etc. competitions


If that is all of the activities which your siblings have ever participated in, you just proved my point as well as I could have.

Quote:
And here's some statistics on homeschooler socialization:
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray1997/17.asp


I would be very interested in how that study was conducted. Was the source parents or a neutral third party? As far as "Play with People Outside the Family" (the only one that I'm really worried about; homeschoolers usually educate fine) - how many of those other activities are counted as "playing"? It's easy to lie with statistics, and in this case I'll believe my eyes.

Quote:

Yes, homeschoolers may not be able to relate to public schoolers (or vice versa), but oddly enough, the same homeschoolers whom you think are so badly adjusted now will probably end up in positions of leadership in college and the business world, where people are more mature and education and imagination are actually appreciated. Their well-adjusted high school peers will be flipping burgers and dreaming about that sports scholarship that got away.


Aside from being a gross generalization about public school kids, that statement succeeded in illuminating a logical fallacy that I've heard a lot. Is success later in life a big enough reward that it's worth having a childhood that sucked? And before you point out how happy all the homeschoolers are, why did you bring that point up in the first place if all the homeschoolers are happy? Offering success as the carrot for a very nasty stick is a trick used by helicopter parents everywhere.

Quote:
Incidently, what size is your public school, and what is its national ranking?


My high school has 1238 kids. I'll have to look up the national ranking (do you know where I could find that? Google was not helpful.) Anecdotally speaking, it has a pretty poor reputation - but not nearly as bad as the local middle school.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Why I am against Homeschooling Reply with quote

Why is removing your kids from public school permanently a problem? The reason for removing them is not just going to disappear if you wait a year or two, and given the academic and scheduling advantages of homeschooling, there's no reason to go back. Also, public schools have a tendency to stick rigidly to the grade system, and often hold you back a grade when you try to reapply instead of putting you in the grade where you belong. We get messages about this also.

Quote:
If that is all of the activities which your siblings have ever participated in, you just proved my point as well as I could have.


Those were just the activities that came quickly to mind. We've also gone to homeschooling and juggling conventions, and TeenPact, and there's probably several other activities I'm forgetting. If you don't approve of our list of extracurriculars, that's because they were picked for our enjoyment, not yours.

Quote:
I would be very interested in how that study was conducted. Was the source parents or a neutral third party?


The source was homeschool families (5,402 homeschool students from 1,657 families). All the socialization choices were objective, not subjective, so it doesn't really matter whether the parents or a disinterested third party answered them.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray1997/02.asp

Quote:
As far as "Play with People Outside the Family" (the only one that I'm really worried about; homeschoolers usually educate fine) - how many of those other activities are counted as "playing"?


None of them, I would guess. Most of my siblings go over to friends' houses quite regularly, and we have a number of public schooled friends from Civil Air Patrol and other activities. I'd view playing as separate from the other items on the list.

Quote:
Aside from being a gross generalization about public school kids...


It was meant to be a gross generalization.

Quote:
...that statement succeeded in illuminating a logical fallacy that I've heard a lot. Is success later in life a big enough reward that it's worth having a childhood that sucked?


Well, depends on your point of view. If you have 16 years of childhood, and live to be the average age of 76, do the 60 years that came after outweigh the 16 that came before? What about the fact that your children and family are likely to be better off and more stable? Also, what are the alternatives? If your two choices are to be miserable in public school or to be less miserable at home (assuming you're miserable at all - we certainly aren't), then the latter is always going to be the better choice. And like I keep saying, there's no reason why you can't have a social life as a homeschooler. Homeschooling saves a huge amount of time, since your teacher is more available and you don't have to transit back and forth, and the extra time is available for activities you enjoy - or a part-time job, if you need to earn some money.

Quote:
And before you point out how happy all the homeschoolers are, why did you bring that point up in the first place if all the homeschoolers are happy? Offering success as the carrot for a very nasty stick is a trick used by helicopter parents everywhere.


All choices have both costs and benefits. This was another item on the benefit side of things. Your particular situation decides whether the costs outweigh the benefits.

Quote:
My high school has 1238 kids. I'll have to look up the national ranking (do you know where I could find that? Google was not helpful.)


No, but the high school probably knows.
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wvrobin
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ATTENDED PUBLIC SCHOOL K- 12. MY GRADE SCHOOL WAS OK IT WAS SMALL PROBABLY LESS THAN 100 KIDS. SOME CLASS GROUPS WERE EVEN PUT IN THE SAME ROOM THEY WERE SO SMALL , LIKE 1ST AND 2ND, 3RD AND 4TH , 5TH AND 6TH. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THEY CAN DO THAT NOW THAT WAS IN THE 80'S.

THEN I WENT TO JUNIOR HIGH AND BY MOST STANDARDS I AM SURE IT IS OR WAS CONSIDERED VERY SMALL. I HATED IT BACK THEN I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT PEOPLE COULD TEACH THEIR KIDS AT HOME. IT IS SO SAD THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE FEEL THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO TREAT OTHERS. I HAD OTHER PEOPLE PLAINLY LET IT BE KNOWN HOW THEY LOOKED DOWN ON ME , THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ME. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS THE CLOTHES I DID OR DIDN'T HAVE. THE STYLE OF MY HAIR OR WHATEVER. I HAD NEVER DONE ANYTHING TO THEM YET BECAUSE I WASN'T JUST LIKE THEM I WAS LESS OF A PERSON.

HIGH SCHOOL WAS SOMEWHAT BETTER, BUT GRADUATION WAS LIBERATING THAT IS WHEN I CAME MORE INTO MY OWN, BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE ALL OF THAT JUDGEMENT ON ME FROM MY PEERS HOLDING ME BACK .

MY OWN SON HAS A SPEECH PROBLEM AND IS A VERY ACTIVE LITTLE BOY THE KIND THAT MOST PEOPLE CALL ADHD. THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM OF COURSE SAYS HE NEEDS MEDICATED. IN THE BEGINNING I DID MEDICATE ,THEY ARE THE SO CALLED EXPERTS, OR SO I THOUGHT. IN THE BEGINING THE MEDS WERE LIKE A MIRACLE, THEN WE HAD TO KEEP INCREASING THEM AND HE WAS GETTING WORSE NOT BETTER. HE WAS SO ANGRY , SO EASILY FRUSTURATED OF COURSE THE TEACHER THOUGHT HE PROBABLY NEEDED HIS MEDS ADJUSTED. HE WAS SO THIN THAT IT HURT ME TO SEE HIM WITHOUT HIS CLOTHES ON, EVEN THOUGH THE DOCTOR ASSURED ME HIS WEIGHT WAS STILL O.K. HE JUST DIDN'T LOOK HEALTHY. HIS BONES STUCK OUT AND HE BRUISED EASILY. HE COULDN'T FORCE HIS SELF TO EAT.

WE STARTED COUNSELING JUST BEFORE SCHOOL LET OUT, BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO INCREASE HIS MED AGAIN. I ALWAYS TOOK HIM OFF THE MEDS DURING THE SUMMER, BUT THIS SUMMER WAS SO DIFFERENT .THIS YEAR WHEN THE MEDS LEFT HIS SYSTEM I GOT MY SWEET LITTLE BOY BACK THAT I HAD ALMOST FORGOT HAD EXISTED. THE ANGER WAS GONE THE MELT DOWNS WEREN'T HAPPENING IT WAS A MIRACLE. THE COUNSELER COULDN'T BELIEVE THE CHANGE IN HIM , HER WORDS WERE HE IS SO PRECIOUS SUCH A SWEET THOUGHTFUL LITTLE BOY. THE THING THEY HAD SAID WOULD HELP WAS REALLY HURTING HIM.

THIS YEAR WHEN HE WENT BACK TO SCHOOL IT HAS BEEN MED FREE AND IT WILL BE THAT WAY FROM NOW ON. OF COURSE I GET ALMOST WEEKLY NOTES. NOAH CAN'T SIT STILL , NOAH DOESN'T PAY ATTENTION,
NOAH TALKS OUT OF TURN, NOAH PLAYS WITH HIS PENCIL, HE LOSES ATLEAST 5 MINUTES OF HIS 15 MINUTE RECESS IF NOT MORE OR ALL OF IT EVERYDAY AND I MEAN EVERYDAY! (SO HE DOESN'T GET TO PLAY!)THEY PUT HIM BY HIMSELF WITH THE OTHER( TROUBLE MAKERS) BECAUSE HE DOESN'T LISTEN. TO ME THAT MAKES NO SINCE, SOMEONE THAT HAS TROUBLE CONCENTRATING (A.K.A ALL OF THE TROUBLE MAKER) SHOULD BE UP FRONT WERE THEY WOULD HAVE LESS DESTRACTIONS. WHEN THE TEACHERS MARK YOUR CHILD AS A TROUBLE MAKER GUESS WHO CATCHES ON TO THAT? HIS PEERS ! HIS LITTLE SISTER IS ALL OF THE TIME TRYING TO TAKE UP FOR HER BIG BROTHER, BECAUSE THE OTHER KIDS DON'T TREAT HIM RIGHT.NOAH DOESN'T TELL ME THINGS ABOUT WHAT OTHER KIDS DO OR SAY TO HIM. HIS LITTLE SISTER TELLS ME THAT THIS ONE BOY IN THE 6TH GRADE HAS MADE NOAH LIKE HIS SLAVE AND NOAH WILL DO THINGS THIS BOY SAYS SO HE ISN'T MEAN TO HIM AND NOAH IS ONLY IN THE
3RD GRADE. IN HIS CLASS THEIR ARE 2 LITTLE BOYS WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED . 2 YEARS AGO WHEN MY SON WAS IN THE 1ST GRADE ONE OF THOSE LITTLE BOYS TOUCHED ANOTHER LITTLE BOY INAPPROPRIATLY, WHILE THEY WERE IN THE BATHROOM UNSUPURVISED. I ASKED MY SON IF HE WAS EVER TOUCHED , HE SAYS NO. I CAN'T HELP BUT WORRY ABOUT THAT.

THE SCHOOL MY KIDS ATTEND IS NOT UNLIKE THE GRADE SCHOOL I WENT TO THERE MAY BE ABOUT 120 OR 130 KIDS GIVE OR TAKE. WE LIVE ONLY ABOUT 8 MILES FROM THE SCHOOL . MY GRADE SCHOOL KIDS GET UP FOR SCHOOL ABOUT 5:50 A.M. THEY CATCH THE BUS AT 6:30 A.M. THEY ARRIVE AT SCHOOL ABOUT 7:15 A.M. SCHOOL STARTS AT 7:20 A.M. THEY ARE ON THE BUS FOR ALMOST AN HOUR TO GO 8 MILES. IN OUR STATE IT SEEMS WE ARE ALWAYS HEARING
CONSOLIDATE!

IT SEEMS TO ME ONCE A CHILD IS MARKED BY THE TEACHERS AND BY THE STUDENT IT ISN'T SOMETHING THAT JUST GOES AWAY THEY BEGIN TO TAKE THAT ON AND BECOME THAT. I AM GOING TO TRY HS. MY KIDS WANT TO TRY HS THEY HAVE ALREADY TRIED THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THAT WAY ISN'T PERFECT EITHER. I AM SORRY FOR THE PERSON WHO HAD THE BAD HS EXPERIENCE, BUT EVERYBODY IS DIFFERENT AND EVERY FAMILY IS DIFFERENT . WHAT WORKS FOR ONE MAY OR MAY NOT WORK FOR THE OTHER ,BUT WE ALL NEED TO TRY AND SEE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR US. BY THE WAY YOU SEEM TO A VERY WELL SPOKEN AND SMART KID.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:09 am    Post subject: The problem with drugs is... Reply with quote

The problem with drugs is your body builds up a resistance to them over time, so eventually you have to take so much to get an effect that it's harmful to your health. Also, drugs that are supposed to counter manic-depressive disorders can backfire, by accentuating one phase instead of dampening the other. Sounds like this was what was happening with your son. He should be much better off now that he's not on the drugs any more. If he still has problems sitting still, have him run around the house a few times before doing his assignments - this is a simple and effective way of slowing down a kid with too much energy.
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Juloyes
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:24 pm    Post subject: homeschooling is an intensely personal choice Reply with quote

You can quote all the statistics you want, but each child, each family, each school is different. Why can't people just let each family make their own choices? Home schools are all different, some go well, some don't. Some public schools are fine, some are terrible. Some kids loved their hs experience, some, like this person, hated it. There are so many variables involved. We have no idea what this person's family life was like, but I know for my children, I want them to desire their family more than their friends. I want home to be the most fun place they can be! That's why I homeschool-to raise them up in the fear and admontion of the Lord, to pass on His mighty deeds to the next generation. To delight in my children and see them delight in the loving God we serve. And that's my personal choice. But I don't pick on my friends who choose to keep their children in the public school. I know they love their children just as much as I do and feel that they can instill the same values I can homeschooling. Choosing to homeschool is wonderful, but it's not gospel truth for goodness sake! Shocked
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:01 am    Post subject: But if you look at the homeschool vs public school debate... Reply with quote

Well yes, but if you look at the homeschool vs public school debate from the viewpoint of which method works best overall, then statistics become very important. There are such things as bad homeschools and good public schools, but not enough of either to change the fact that, speaking in general terms, homeschooling works better overall. Perhaps if the schools were smaller and actually accountable to the people using them, they would become more attractive.

In the interests of choice, I'm all in favor of a school voucher system. Razz
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Tabz
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree about the school voucher system. After all you are dealing with people as people. Each of us have different needs, wants and desires. I was homeschooled from pre-school to the end of my highschool experience and it worked wonderfully for me. Why? Because my personality is such that I work better on my own when it comes to learning something. By the time I hit jr. high and highschool I was self-taught in basically every subject. I was comprehending and understanding things at a level above my mother's education level.

For others they need the option of something different. Not everyone in life is a self-starter like me. Not everyone is cut out for big classrooms.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I think this person hated his HS experience as much as I hated my public school experience.

Ultimately it does depend on the family to determine what works best for them. I never even considered HS as an option until my current husband and I had a child together. My oldest is in the public school system and that won't change because his dad won't agree to homeschooling even though I've tried to explain why it would be good for him. Oh well.

Our decision was based on several factors. Academics was definitely the most important issue for us. We enrolled my oldest child in a private school with high hopes that the private sector would prove to be more agreeable than the public sector. We were wrong. We encountered the same issues with other kids and the same apathy from the teachers. It was horribly disappointing.

Based on our experience with both public and private school, my younger children will be HS from the beginning.

By the way, the kids that are picked on in Kindergarten are the same kids that are picked on in Middle School and the same kids that are picked on in High School. The cycle will not change just because the kids involved get older. I know. I lived through that cycle as the one kid in my class who was completely ostracized. The teachers didn't do anything to help and none of those kids ever got old enough to get over their poor behavior. There are some of those same kids that still have those same attitudes even now - and I'm 32 years old. This is not a problem that gets better with age. The only thing that might get better is the individual person's ability to cope with the abuse.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting the "ole" social question, to the original poster who did not have adequet social oppourtunity was it lack of funds, location, or non support in the enviorment??? Which is what it sounds like.....Every person is different on social needs Namaste sheri
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is very sad that you have a poor opinion of homeschool. But it sounds as if you are still in school, so I hope in time you will come to appreciate all of the experiences that have made you who you are.

Here is an example of a possitive homeschool experience:

My little brother was homeschooled most of his time growing up, he is now 25 and very happy.

He can talk to any person of any age because of his homeschool experiences. He excells in his career and has a family of his own now. His two boys are only toddlers but already being homeschooled, and they will be for a long time.

One activity my brother was involved with that I have not read on here .... he was a re-enactor. He re-enacted civil war for his 9th grade history class, he loved it (still does actually) and learned to socialize with people of all ages, not only the few his age. I think I will ask my kids if they want to be involved in something like that.

He also owned a business at the age of 16, and learned much more than consumer education ever taught me in public school. He went to museums, plays, theme parks, all in homeschool.

It took me a while to learn this: Homeschool is not public school at home.

The last day my son was in public school, we had a meeting. The principle told me that I am not a certified teacher. I thanked her for reminding me of that, and remided her, that she wasn't either before college, and she taught her kids to walk, talk, brush their teeth, and many other aspects of life. That is where homeschooling starts, it is so natural to us in the begining, then after our children go off to public school, we become numb to the natural way of teaching.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: My oldest bro was accepted at the Coast Guard academy... Reply with quote

My oldest bro homeschooled all the way up through high school, was accepted at the Coast Guard academy (which has one of the strictest sets of entrance requirements in the nation), graduated with honors, and is now happily married and based in California. He was quite popular at the academy, and has no trouble communicating with others.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was homeschooled from K-12th grade. I entered college and by the time I left I knew 90% of the people on campus, including staff and administration - so the social adjustment is a myth for a lot of people.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:33 pm    Post subject: Socialization Reply with quote

The main objection I often hear to people wanting to send their kids to public school is the issue of Socialization. We homeschool our children and one of the biggest reasons is the advice a pastor gave us when we were deciding whether to homeschool, public, christian school. He said, If you want your children to grow up and be mature, let them spend most of their time with those who are more mature than themselves. If you want your children to remain immature, throw them in with a crowd of other immature people. I believe this advice is true and it has proven to be good wisdom for our life. I could go on, but I won't right now.
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