I just got mad at my son :( and ramble abt. discipline

[kennys_mommy]

Well, we're ramping up to start school again, this year we decided it was worth the money and time to do the DVD program from A Beka. I've gotten all the stuff organized now and we have moved into a much larger home, where we actually have a school room and I've set up a pretty cool system where we're having a virtual blackboard and the internet is going to be a teaching tool along with the DVD's. I'm pretty excited about all of this. When I get it all set up, I'll have to post a picture of the room.

We've had a long summer of rest, we haven't done one educational thing all summer LOL - well, you know what I mean. I've given him a huge break from both of us in learning mode. We've just been mom and kid.

Over the summer the 15 yo. decided that he wanted to live with his mother again, so it's just the 2 of us, and as much as it pains me to say this, I think it may be a good thing for Kenny. The 15 yo. was raised with no discipline and no respect and the things he was teaching his younger brother were terrible.

Anyway, Kenny seems more focused now and has matured greatly over the summer. We're still battling tears when he's wrong about something, something will give with this soon. My DH was apparently the same way when he was a child, their family is extremely persnickity and perfectionists in everything they do - I've seen some pretty freaky things at a family reunion, it seems to be a genetic flaw of some sort.

I'm nervous about starting, and we're going to be a week later than we thought, we had some construction issues come up and had to put things off for a few days. Kenny's playing online math and word games to get him ramped up this week. I think the internet is great learning place for kids too.

Anyway, you're all in my prayers and I hope I'm in yours. I'll keep posted about what's going on.

[kennys_mommy]

OK day one and I enjoyed the DVD program, our classroom is set up pretty nifty too and I had no problem getting ready for today and after class for tomorrow's class.

It took us a little bit longer than it may end up taking - because when it close to lunchtime, he just wouldn't sit still and listen to the DVD. So we took a break and came back to it.

Here is the big problem I'm having with him, and it's been another issue that I had hoped would eventually clear up. It's not.

If he's wrong, about anything at all, really, anything. He cries. DH and I have gone on and on and on to him telling him it's OK to be wrong and he's not going to be right about everything in his life. He just breaks my heart. I wish I'd have known him since he was a baby to know what caused this problem. He's such a happy go lucky kiddo - but then all of a sudden you say, "No honey, it's like this instead" and he's all broken hearted. I can't go around his whole life not correcting him.

And back to my original post - right off the bat, I did something different than the teacher did and he was right on top of me telling me *I* was wrong and cried because I was doing it a little different than she was.

What on earth am I going to do with him?

[Lily]

Teach him how to re-compose himself when he gets upset. Give him a few minutes to step back, go into the other room and take a few deep breaths.


I'm wondering.....where does your son fit into this equation of school? Why not make him responsible for teaching you the material - when we teach, we learn. The dvds seem to put him at 'empty receptacle' stage, not 'fire that needs to be fanned' stage.
In the classical structure, your son is at the age where he needs to bounce ideas off of people and create his own thoughts. Are the dvds allowing him to do this?

[Jill]

I noticed you said "I enjoyed" the DVD program. Did he?

If he enjoys the DVD's and he's learning, but just won't sit still, what about letting him watch them while jumping on one of those little trampolines? Does he sit still for the other shows he watches?

I have a daughter who literally will stand on her head while we do things. It doesn't bother me, when we're done, she knows them. As she has gotten older she's gotten better about sitting (especially in group situations outside home) but she still has her moments at home.

As far as the "my teacher didn't do it that way", I went through that with my oldest who came out of public school in 2nd grade. I got tired of it too and just would say something like, "Well, this is another way to do the same thing -now you'll be extra smart because you know more than one way to do something" and just move on like nothing happened. As she got older, she outgrew the things they had done in school and there was no reason to say it anymore.
Best wishes.

[kennys_mommy]

OH! Yes he does enjoy the DVD a lot. It's really a great thing, and the teacher is so thorough with explaining things. There isn't really a time listed to do seatwork though, so we're just doing that when that classtime is over. Then we go on to the next thing.

My husband is a computer nerd and set us up with a virtual blackboard that runs on a dual monitor system from my laptop. So I can sit here and keep track of him, keep up on bills and emails while he's watching intently and if he needs something on the blackboard, I can put it up on the other monitor. I thought it was going to be a big hassle and I fought it to begin with. I had to do some photoshop work with the scanned images - but that's what I did before I was a homeschool mom. Worked in graphic design - it wasn't all that hard.

But now, it's pretty cool and it's saved us from attaching a blackboard in the room and from me having to write it all out everyday.

Here is a picture of our classroom! That's Mrs. Chappell (Chapel) on the screen, Math class I believe.


And a little broader view - see this screen was up!


We just had a little tear fit - he couldn't tear out a page like she showed them, so I was showing him a little differently and he absolutely dissolved because it wasn't like SHE said to do it. I explained that she is on the TV and doesn't know we didn't do it exactly, and he wasn't going to get into trouble if he doesn't do it exactly right.

However, all in all - he's doing just great listening and paying attention in class today. He's so proud when he gets an answer right. I am too.

[kennys_mommy]

I'm wondering.....where does your son fit into this equation of school? Why not make him responsible for teaching you the material - when we teach, we learn. The dvds seem to put him at 'empty receptacle' stage, not 'fire that needs to be fanned' stage.
In the classical structure, your son is at the age where he needs to bounce ideas off of people and create his own thoughts. Are the dvds allowing him to do this?

He's got so many thoughts in his little head, he just talks constantly in and out of class because there is so much running around in there. Shushing him is a big part of class because he's telling me what he's doing so much and we're backing up a lot. But that's all alright with me, because he's learning it twice that way... So he's teaching me too - and I pay attention to the class with him and we can discuss what's going on during seatwork or break times, which I'm going to institute more of so he's not sitting 6 hours straight.

I love that he is a little empty vessel just waiting to be filled to the top with knowledge.

We WILL have a good school year this year. Pray for us!

[Jill]

I think you will have a great year...your posts already sound more positive.

[LilyMama]

Here's my thoughts... kind of a more philosophical response... many kids come out of the public schools with the belief that education, and being a good student, is about getting the answers right. There's not a whole lot more that gets commended or appreciated in the assembly-line system that defines our public schools. It sounds like your stepson just needs a lot of positive reinforcement in things that aren't about answering the questions correctly. Basically, as with many public school kids, his value system needs re-tuning, and that takes time and deliberate attention.

I'm sure you praise him a lot, but he still doesn't seem to think other things are as important as being "right." Somehow, and homeschooling can be a great tool for this, you need to help him value things outside of "always being right" and value himself as an independent, creative, unique thinker that is in the process of learning. But if you are doing school just like the public schools- focusing on correct answers and getting through lessons- then you aren't really changing anything for him, you know? If you praise him for getting right answers very profusely, to try to offset the tears for when he's wrong, you may inadvertently be making things worse. Because you could be sending him the message that he's going to be most appreciated when he's perfect and anything less just isn't good enough. Saying "it doesn't matter, we all make mistakes" a million times just won't make as much of an impact as you may want.

My sister is one of the few excellent public school teachers, and I watch how she interacts with children to model positive reinforcement techniques. I think that you can find a way to celebrate the process of learning that will take the stress off of doing everything right the first time. Maybe I'm over-simplifying, but I think taking an extra minute or so in the correction process would pay off. You know, "It's interesting you thought the lady said to do the worksheet just like that, and I thought it was this way. Isn't it funny that I noticed this and you noticed that? We're all so different! Let's watch it again and see what we notice this time..." Or something like this. If you can move him away from the right/wrong aspect of it, he might tear some of those defenses down. My sister is incredibly consistent with this- saying it just once won't cut it- and her kids pretty quickly come to find peace with the process of learning. Studies show that when kids find the freedom to explore being wrong, and how they got to the wrong answer, will actually allow them to get answers right more often. They learn how to learn.

Did you know that most state requirements ask that a child can sit still, at task, for 15 minutes straight at the end of kindergarten? After that it varies, but in most states a first and second grader are trying to achieve 20-30 minutes at the end of the year. And they only expect that 2-3 times in one school day. My sister's first grade class is in constant motion, the kids don't really sit at their desk doing work for all that much time. Many of us who start homsechooling don't remember that about our early years, we remember the sitting still because it was so hard, and we remember high school, when sitting still all day was a bit, but not much, easier. So we try to model that. It might be worth your time to go sit in on a public or private school class of his age to see what's going on. Not that you want to model it, but you might find that you are actually asking more tedious behavior from him than even the school does. Just a thought...

I hope you'll continue to post your story. My kids are young, but my son is a very particular, perfectionistic kind of kid, and incredibly afraid of being wrong. He also doesn't sit still. That's why I was so drawn to your post, as I could easily see my son like your stepson in just a few years. As you can see, I have philosophical ideas about learning, but I'd really love to see how someone actually puts it in action.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[kennys_mommy]

Things are going pretty well but we're still having teary times, when he doesn't understand instructions and won't ask or tell me that he doesn't understand them and just does them, and then it's all wrong. Of course, A Beka isn't without fault here.

Example: the other day they had a list of sounds to add letters to to make a real word, from their spelling list. One of the letter combinations was bat he was to add either c or k to a list of words, well batk or batc aren't words and he knew that... that was about 3 minutes of explaining that even school books are wrong sometimes.

Really, I know it may be hard to understand, but it's a LOT genetic. His paternal side just are not wrong, period. Grandma, Daddy, bigger brother. I can show irrefutable proof that they're wrong and I *might* get "well, maybe" out of them, but I can't remember the last time I've ever been right about anything. There is also no gray area in this family. Black, white or nothing. It's a rough time.

I've been letting him wiggle more in class, and letting him hum while he words, at least when he's humming, he's not talking to me and totally off topic. We take wiggle breaks, we take snack breaks we sing and dance and chat a bit between classes...

He's such a good kid though, really he is. I love him dearly and just want him to be well-adjusted, whatever that is LOL!

[MelissaM]

If he's wrong, about anything at all, really, anything. He cries. DH and I have gone on and on and on to him telling him it's OK to be wrong and he's not going to be right about everything in his life. He just breaks my heart. I wish I'd have known him since he was a baby to know what caused this problem. He's such a happy go lucky kiddo - but then all of a sudden you say, "No honey, it's like this instead" and he's all broken hearted. I can't go around his whole life not correcting him.

Maybe at this stage it might pay to spend some time concentrating on alternative possible answers, instead of right and wrong. There are many ways of looking at a problem, and then there is the expected way which is considered "right".

For instance: "Add 4 and 6". The conventional "correct" answer is, of course "10", but is it really the only way to look at it? Could we not say that put the two numbers side by side and it makes "46", or that 4+6 = 11-1. With a bit of imagination, you could come up with a miriad of possibilities, and then come back to the conventional answer.

This way, wrong is not seen as the end of the world, but rather part of a process to find the useful truth. This approach won't stifle his imaginative reasoning, but may also overcome his fear of being wrong.

Anyway, good luck!

[Lorelei Sieja]

I had a daughter who hated to get anything wrong, also. She was my youngest, and always wanted her papers to be clean, neat, and perfect. If I marked something wrong, I had to mark it with a small, erasable mark. Then when I helped her understand the mistake, she'd go back and fix it and I'd erase the mistake. I usually recorded the actual score in a record book, but to appease her tearfulness, it made her papers look nicer.

I'm a little sorry that I did that, though. She's in college now, and still gets very upset when she makes mistakes. She has carried this "perfectionist" attitude to everything she does, She joined a rowing team at college, but because she wasn't exceptionally good at it right away, she lost interest and dropped out. Oddly enough, she's in the Japanese program, doing quite well, and very happy with that. I would think that Japanese would be harder than rowing a boat, but who am I to say? <G>. She's carrying a double major, and keeping her grades up because she's on scholarship. But I worry that she's trying too hard. I wish she would have learned to handle a little disappointment earlier in life.

Lorelei

[BrandyBJ]

My children are very much this way. I discovered after BATTLES to start out with 2 plans. For example; 1. tear out the page this way....and 2. If it doesn't work (rips wrong or something) here's what we'll do.....We have a 5 sec conversation and then they do it. They are ALL persnickety and it can be very frustrating.

My oldest still has to erase like crazy because it has to be perfect - but thats his personailty, so I've let go of it and bought extra erasers.

Sounds like kenny is doing much better. Thank goodness. Good luck!!

[tinky wink]

Well I wonder how little Kenny is doing now? I've discovered a great trick to use with kids with AD/HD or just kids who have a long assignment to do and it looks like eternity to them. I put an egg timer on for 5 min or 2 min or whatever I think is the limit of their frustration level and tell them to just work for that amount of time and see how much they can get done. They're usually amazed and then if it's something like 25 math problems, I'll say, "Look, you did 12 problems--you'lre half done! Now take a little break." They usually love the timer and like to try to beat their last time and aren't interested in the break. I'm AD/HD myself so I know this would have worked with me.