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Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 3:32 pm
by carsmom

What steps did your children have to take to meet the college standards. The college I attend requires homeschooled students to have a GED. Was that the case for your children?

Thank you.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:50 pm
by elliemaejune
carsmom wrote:Ellimaejune,

What steps did your children have to take to meet the college standards. The college I attend requires homeschooled students to have a GED. Was that the case for your children?

Thank you.

Few colleges require hsers to have a GED. Some parents have successfully fought that requirement. Most colleges will accept hsed students with some combination of good ACT/SAT scores, portfolios, and so on.

My dc began taking community college classes when they were 14. Calif doesn't require c.c. students to do anything other than take placement tests for math and English, both of which my dds did well on. Both graduated from c.c. with almost 4.0 GPAs. Older dd then transferred to San Jose State, where she graduated with a degree in English Literature. Younger dd chose not to go on to a state school (long story). She now does what she has wanted to do since she was 5: teach ballet.

Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:18 pm
by carsmom
I am glad they are successful and happy in their choices. I appreciate your help and taking the time to answer my questions.


Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:58 am
by WishboneDawn
I just have to add, I've heard many parents say they'd never homeschool because they couldn't get along with their kids. Is schooling a way of avoiding the issue of dealing with and relating to your child?

Anyhow, I was bullied too. I learned things from it. People usually learn things rom bad experiences however I don't ever think that's a good reason for deliberately exposing children to bad experiences. Enough of that happens in everyday life.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:09 am
by carsmom
I don't know any parents that don't like their children, but I am sure some do and send them to school to get rid of them. Just like some parents choose to homeschool so they can hide the signs of abuse their children endure by them. That does not say all parent who homeschool their kids abuse them, just like all parents who send their kids to school don't want them around. And there are others ways to relate to your child other that hiding them keeping them under your wing all day. And I am not suggesting that someone set their child up to be bullied, but sometimes we have to teach them to deal with things in a way that does not avoid the issue. There will be a time when we won't be there to protect them and I want my child to know how to take care of himself, and before you jump on that one, I do not promote violence.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:39 am
by 4given
carsmom wrote: And there are others ways to relate to your child other that hiding them keeping them under your wing all day.

Do you know any HSers who have chosen to HS for this reason? Not based on your assumptions, either.

It seems to me that you will not tolerate any generalizations regarding PS. You clearly cling to them to support your own opinion.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:51 pm
by carsmom
Neil and Kristy Edgar from Kansas are accused of abusing and murdering their 9 year old son.

Iowa man accused of murdering his 10 year old adopted son. No one even noticed until a year later.

Marjorey Lavery claimed her father abused her.

Andrea Yates, Deanna Laney?

In some cases it was not required to notify the state of a parents intentions to homeschool so that made it that much easier to hide the abuse and death of a child.

A lot of cases of abuse are reported by teachers. If a child does not go to school, it may be easier to hide the signs.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:37 pm
by Theodore
It's possible to exploit the homeschool law to hide your criminal activities, but that doesn't mean that homeschooling itself is wrong or should be regulated more heavily. For every case of "homeschool" abuse, I'm sure I can find dozens or hundreds of cases of school abuse - there are at least several in the news every single day. So if you're a non-abusive homeschool parent, school is obviously the more dangerous environment. Many people switch to homeschooling once they've found that out the hard way.

The problem with your argument is simply one of freedom - the gov't can't properly make sure you're "safe" without controlling your life. Once it controls your life, the gov't itself is free to abuse you however it wants.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:57 pm
by keptwoman
It is sad that you are writing your paper with such a closed mind, you could learn so much more with an open mind.

John Taylor Gatto has been a New York school teacher for 30 years, he was teacher of the year in 2000. You might enjoy reading a book or two of his on the education system.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:04 pm
by Cally
College is about expanding your mind not narrowing it...and I have never seen a college student working on a paper online that debated their side of things. They are usually interested in facts and others opinions.

If this is really a college paper, and I'm starting to have my doubts then you will find these facts about what bullying does to kids interesting.



Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash. Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.
March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.
Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.
March 1997
Sanaa, Yemen Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.
Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss. Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.
Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky. Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.
Dec. 15, 1997
Stamps, Ark. Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.
March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark. Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.
April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa. One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.
May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn. One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.
May 21, 1998
Springfield, Ore. Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.
June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va. One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.
April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo. 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the nation's deadliest school shooting. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.
April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, Canada One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.
May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga. Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.
Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.
Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.
Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, Netherlands One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.
Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.
March 2000
Branneburg, Germany One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.
March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga. Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.
May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla. One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.
Sept. 26, 2000
New Orleans, La. Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.
Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md. One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.
Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.
March 5, 2001
Santee, Calif. Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.
March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa. Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.
March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif. One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.
March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind. One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.
Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich. Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.
Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y. A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.
Feb. 19, 2002
Freising, Germany Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.
April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.
April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.
October 28, 2002
Tucson, Ariz. Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.
April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La. One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.
April 24, 2003
Red Lion, Pa. James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.
Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn. Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15.
Sept. 28, 2004
Carmen de Patagones, Argentina Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.
March 21, 2005
Red Lake, Minn. Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.
Nov. 8, 2005
Jacksboro, Tenn. One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.
Aug. 24, 2006
Essex, Vt. Christopher Williams, 27, looking for his ex-girlfriend at Essex Elementary School, shot two teachers, killing one and wounding another. Before going to the school, he had killed the ex-girlfriend's mother.
Sept. 13, 2006
Montreal, Canada Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.
Sept. 26, 2006
Bailey, Colo. Adult male held six students hostage at Platte Canyon High School and then shot and killed Emily Keyes, 16, and himself.
Sept. 29, 2006
Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student shot and killed Weston School principal John Klang.
Oct. 3, 2006
Nickel Mines, Pa. 32-year-old Carl Charles Roberts IV entered the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School and shot 10 schoolgirls, ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, and then himself. Five of the girls and Roberts died.
Jan. 3, 2007
Tacoma, Wash. Douglas Chanthabouly, 18, shot fellow student Samnang Kok, 17, in the hallway of Henry Foss High School.
April 16, 2007
Blacksburg, Va. A 23-year-old Virginia Tech student, Cho Seung-Hui, killed two in a dorm, then killed 30 more 2 hours later in a classroom building. His suicide brought the death toll to 33, making the shooting rampage the most deadly in U.S. history. Fifteen others were wounded.

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 10:11 pm
by 4given
carsmom wrote:A lot of cases of abuse are reported by teachers. If a child does not go to school, it may be easier to hide the signs.

For every one case that a teacher reports, there are hundreds that go unnoticed.

Abuse comes in many different forms including neglect, emotional, verbal, physical, sexual, etc.

Each child of abuse responds in a very different way. Some withdraw, others are over-achievers, and still others act out-even becoming bullies. The ones who act out seem to be giving the most obvious signs yet these are the ones that usually get the least attention.

The fact that teachers report some instances is great. However, it is not a strong argument against HSing.

The majority of HSers are involved in numerous activities outside the home that you so vehemently claim they are hiding in. Most HS families have extended families that are actively involved. Some of them even have families that are anti-HS. Most HSers have no means or intent of hiding anything.

Sadly, most children of abuse, whether PS or HS, remain children of abuse. PS is not the solution.

In your first post, you humbly asked whether removing a child from PS (for bullying or falling behind) was avoidance or assistance. It has become obvious that you are not truly interested in opinions that differ from your own.

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 3:27 pm
by momo3boys
When you go to the doctor's office, most doctors will make a note in the chart that you are hsing. That is another way for you to be accountable as far as abuse goes.

I know of at least three mothers that have sent their children to school so that the kindergarten teacher would "fix them" THey didn't know how to discipline their child so they are making the teachers do it. That is avoidance to me. It also causes some major problems for the children that are actually there to learn and don't need to be "fixed"

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:50 pm
by carsmom
I am really a college student doing research, to clear up any doubt, and I will present this week. My purpose here is to collect information and opinions about homeschooling, from someone who is homeschooled or chooses to homeschool their children. My assignment has been to argue the social inadequacies of homeschooling. My question was about avoiding issues, and when the use of the word avoidance was questioned it became more opinionated, on my part, than I intended. I do think that homeschooling can and in a lot of cases does cause children to have difficulties socially. As does public school, but that is not what I am arguing. I only know three children who are homeschooled, all have trouble interacting with children and do not respect figures of authority outside of their parents. If I were from a large city, I may feel completely different about homeschooling.

As for hiding abuse, it does occur. I am in no way saying that everyone who homeschools has something to hide. And not everyone takes their children to the doctor.

momo3boys, I agree that parents sending their kids to school because they do not know how to deal with them are avoiding the issue, thank you for that point. Do you feel in anyway that homeschooling can be a way of avoiding issues at school. And how could this affect your children later on?

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:51 pm
by Calla_Dragon
I've never had a problem getting my child exposed to bullies, unfortunately. My child has encountered bullies at the park, at after school classes he attends through community ed and even on his own sports teams. If your child has adequate social outlets with a variety of kids (and most homeschoolers do citing a study done where homeschoolers surveyed are in an average of 2 extracurricular activities per week), the child will encounter bullies and have to deal with them at some point or another.

I don't think homeschoolers are avoiding the issue of bullying because you simply can't short of locking your child in a box and hiding him from the world. What homeschoolers seek to do is control exposure and ensure their child is equipped to deal with the situation. There is a big difference between letting a child go to school knowing they will be bullied and knowing they are ill equipped to handle the situation hoping they'll "figure it out" on the fly and letting your child be exposed to an incident of bullying and then talking with them about what happened, how the situation made them feel and ideas on how to handle the situation next time - because there will be a next time. It's called controlling exposure to minimize short and/or long term physical, emotional or psychological damage - that's a far, far cry from avoidance. Think of it as easing yourself into a hot tub vs. jumping right in and getting burned.

Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:52 am
by momo3boys
carsmom wrote:momo3boys, I agree that parents sending their kids to school because they do not know how to deal with them are avoiding the issue, thank you for that point. Do you feel in anyway that homeschooling can be a way of avoiding issues at school. And how could this affect your children later on?

Some parents may avoid issues by homeschooling them. I don't know. Because homeschooling is so individualized, you can't really compare or make generalizations. In public school that is more governmentally controlled generalizations are a little more acceptable. Not all schools are alike, but they are more alike than different. Homeschools are more different than alike. It all depends on the parents. If a child is never taught to respect others authority, then they won't. My children are taught to address adults by MR, or Mrs, and there last name, unless given permission. They are taught to respect others property and space.

I think that as I am parenting, and I am not perfect, I am teaching my children how to be active members in society, they see me vote, and interact with other adults everyday. They also interact with adults and children everyday. Most of the time my 9yo, likes the adults more than the children. I think that this will affect him in a positive way because he will be able to know how to interact with adults when he needs to get a job or interview for a college. At the same time, he loves to do childish things, like dig in the dirt and play with legos!

We do not avoid issues of the public school, I just prepare my children for the onslaught of what happens and coach them through it. Like basic training before war. I know that is an extreme example but it fits sometimes. I do not avoid bullying, I coach them through it, I do not avoid the fact that some adults, shouldn't' be called adults, they know to respect them, but that doesn't mean that what the adult is doing is right, (yelling things at a baseball game for instance.)

Homeschooling is a way for parents to know what is happening to their children and better prepare them for it. You can't help your child to know what to do, when they come home from school and tell you "nothing" when you ask them what happened in school that day. I know, I was there, I saw how the other children at the park behaved. I am their if they need help dealing with an issue. I don't intervene unless asked, or someone is in Physical or emotional danger. I let them work it out, and then help if they need it. but I SAW it and I can talk to them about what happened> you can't do that if you aren't there, and if they don't tell you. Even if they did tell you what happens at school, you are only getting one part of the story. I get the whole story because I saw it happen and I heard what was said, so i can talk to them about what they could hav done differently and what was done well.

Do I avoid issues? no. Do I handle them better than the public school can? yes.

I'm sorry for the long post, I guess I got carried away. I hope this answers your questions.