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Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts type organizations that aren't BS/GS
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Randigale
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Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Boy Scouts/Girl Scouts type organizations that aren't BS/GS Reply with quote

I want to get my kids (6 and 7) in a club-type organization but I don't want them in Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts. Any ideas??

R
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Theodore
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Location: Missouri, US

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sorts of things are they interested in, and do you live in the country or the suburbs or the city?
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Randigale
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are very typical. Bree loves to read so I have her in stuff at the library. Tanny is ALL BOY!!!

I think they would enjoy GS/BS. My issue with it is personal. That is why I'm looking for something similar, but not that. LOL.

We live in the suburbs, very close to the city. Smile
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try Campfire http://www.campfire.org/start.asp. I think they're for both boys and girls.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked for a local swim team or other neighborhood-run activity? Sadly, your kids' ages and your location in the suburbs letsout some things like 4-H or building a fort in your backyard.
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MNKristy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awana is a club like BS/GS that meets at churches and is Christian based. That's about all that I know about it though...we did not do that.
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Randigale
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Camp Fire is the type of thing I'm looking for. Unfortunately, the nearest one is half a state away.

There is a Boys and Girls Club. They are for children in bad situations, right?

Thanks for all the help, guys, but it looks like I'm painted into Scouts. There are other local clubs, but I like that the scout-type clubs have patches and the like they can earn. My kids will do sports, but I want them to do something that covers more ground. My main problem with BS/GS only really exists during cookie/popcorn time... That, and a BS in NY went all the way through but wasn't allowed to reach the highest status because he said he wasn't Christian. That status comes with special recognition/scholarships from colleges. I understand that it is a Christian organization, but after 11 years of hard work the boy deserved the achievement he had earned. I would be very upset if that happened to my son.

I guess I'll have to get over it....
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that will subside as more and more diversity enters that arena. We also will face that when my boys reach that age as we are also not Christian. I find that operating on a need to know basis is the best way for us to go about things. We don't tell people we're not Christian and it's really none of their business if we are or not. I don't think the Boy Scouts overtly asks kids if they are or if they're not - I think that was a situation where he told them. Doesn't mean what they did was right, but I've seen a lot of heat come from sharing more information than probably ought have been shared considering what the situation calls for. Being a good boy scout has nothing to do with what religion you are so I see it as a non-issue as far as your ability to move through the ranks is concerned.

I might be mistaken here, but I don't think the Boy Scouts is a Christian organization as in set up in a Christian way. I view them more as a para-military organization. I view it the same way as our government. You see "In God We Trust" on our currency and swearing your oath of office on a Bible, yet we claim to have separation of church and state (this comment was not meant to bring religion vs. state into the conversation, but meant strictly as an illustration). Boy Scouts is much the same, IMO. Not a Christian organization, per se, but references to God will be found in it.

I know there are some references to god in the oaths, but IMO, I'd put in my own god(s). It's my oath and I'll say it the way I please and I'll teach my kids to do the same. The point is the spirit of the vow, not the words used, IMO. My husband, who is athiest, spent a lot of time thinking about what the oath meant to him, even though there was a reference to God in there. He made it to Eagle scout just fine and intends on being a leader when our boys go in.

I'm not saying you should "just get over it" - I'm just sharing my viewpoint on the situation. I think you have some very valid concerns there.
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Randigale
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are on a need to know basis- even in our own home. My little family of 4 covers a lot of ground, religiously speaking, so we try to teach respect and how to bite your tongue when disagreeing with someone about their religion in a way that won't cause permanent damage to said tongue. Very Happy

When all of that happened, I was lead to believe that it was because the boy was not Christian- therefore implying that BSA is a Christian organization. I just looked it up, though, and I was wrongish (which is the best kind of wrong to be . Wink ). The boy was an atheist and the BSA is a "spiritual" organization, for lack of a better term.

In their by-laws:

"The Boy Scouts of America maintain that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing his obligation to God....The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training."

They are very hateful towards gay people, which is a problem for me.

"If a youth comes to a Scoutmaster and admits to doing wrong, like stealing, lying, cheating or vandalizing, the normal procedure is to counsel the youth privately and sympathetically... If the youth admits to being a homosexual, the Boy Scouts' policy is to instantly terminate his association with Scouting."

However, the thoughts of the organization itself on homosexuality does not appear in any of the handbooks or training materials given to scouts, scout leaders, or parents.

I just don't know. One one hand- no organization will be squeaky clean, and the good of the BSA certainly outweighs the bad (in my situation, not on an overall political scene). On the other, with people paying so much attention to religion and sexuality these days, I fear I might ultimately feel shame that my son dons their uniform.

I just don't know....

My issues with the GSA is that there is just an aweful lot of money spent on their materials and earned through cookie orders that never makes it to the girls in need. A fact which I am unfortunate enough to know because my aunt was a troop leader for an inner city troop. These girls couldn't afford to buy uniforms and the GSA, who is supposed to help them, wouldn't help. Ultimately, they couldn't walk with other Girl Scouts in a parade because they had to make their own uniforms using t-shirts and bubble paint. Those are not problems that would effect me personally, but make my human-conciousness a bit itchy.

Unfortunately, there is no viable option in my area. So, I do this or I do nothing and my kids really want to do it....... Question
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randigale wrote:


When all of that happened, I was lead to believe that it was because the boy was not Christian- therefore implying that BSA is a Christian organization. I just looked it up, though, and I was wrongish (which is the best kind of wrong to be . Wink ). The boy was an atheist and the BSA is a "spiritual" organization, for lack of a better term.


I firmly believe it's possible to be spiritual even if you don't believe in a god or other supernatural power. Religion does not automatically spirituality the same way as being spiritual doesn't mean you have to belong to a religion.

Quote:
In their by-laws:

"The Boy Scouts of America maintain that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing his obligation to God....The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training."


I see your point. I disagree with that bylaw as well.

Quote:
They are very hateful towards gay people, which is a problem for me.

"If a youth comes to a Scoutmaster and admits to doing wrong, like stealing, lying, cheating or vandalizing, the normal procedure is to counsel the youth privately and sympathetically... If the youth admits to being a homosexual, the Boy Scouts' policy is to instantly terminate his association with Scouting."


That is definately out of line. However, I see that changing, hopefully, with all the coverage about homosexuals going around. Someone, somewhere will make an example and take that issue to court. I have little worry that that'll change.

Quote:
I just don't know. One one hand- no organization will be squeaky clean, and the good of the BSA certainly outweighs the bad (in my situation, not on an overall political scene). On the other, with people paying so much attention to religion and sexuality these days, I fear I might ultimately feel shame that my son dons their uniform.


I understand your concern and frustration. That's a tough spot to be in.

Quote:
My issues with the GSA is that there is just an aweful lot of money spent on their materials and earned through cookie orders that never makes it to the girls in need. A fact which I am unfortunate enough to know because my aunt was a troop leader for an inner city troop. These girls couldn't afford to buy uniforms and the GSA, who is supposed to help them, wouldn't help. Ultimately, they couldn't walk with other Girl Scouts in a parade because they had to make their own uniforms using t-shirts and bubble paint. Those are not problems that would effect me personally, but make my human-conciousness a bit itchy.


I have my own issues with the Girl Scouts. When I was in, all we did was cooking, sewing, little cutsie crafts and other "girl" stuff. I never got to do the stuff the boys got to do. The message that there were things that girls do and there was stuff boys do was strongly embedded in their activities and I felt it pigeon-holed girls into traditional woman roles. I don't believe in that - I believe girls are as capable as boys and they should be allowed to explore any area that interests them. That goes both ways - boys should be allowed to cook or sew without being called names. I think the two organizations do a poor job at getting that message across.

Granted I was in Girl Scouts in the mid-80s so maybe the organization has caught up with the times since then. I hope that is the case.
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Randigale
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calla_Dragon wrote:
I have my own issues with the Girl Scouts. When I was in, all we did was cooking, sewing, little cutsie crafts and other "girl" stuff. I never got to do the stuff the boys got to do. The message that there were things that girls do and there was stuff boys do was strongly embedded in their activities and I felt it pigeon-holed girls into traditional woman roles. I don't believe in that - I believe girls are as capable as boys and they should be allowed to explore any area that interests them. That goes both ways - boys should be allowed to cook or sew without being called names. I think the two organizations do a poor job at getting that message across.

Granted I was in Girl Scouts in the mid-80s so maybe the organization has caught up with the times since then. I hope that is the case.


That is what it was like when I was in. They have camping badges and things like that now, so I think it is different. My girl will be in Karate also, though, so she'll learn how to cook with them and kick a** somewhere else. LOL.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL yeah! And girls can kick it too! I'm the only woman in my husband's kung fu class and I think I scare a lot of the men there lol. But I fix stuff around the house, I do yard work and landscaping. I remodel, put up sheetrock, etc. My sons see me do all sorts of "guy" things. They also see me doing lots of "girl" things. In my mind, they're just things that gotta get done, so we do them regardless of gender. Smile

On that same token, my boys see my husband cooking and sewing. They also see him remodeling the house, working on the car, doing yard work. That street runs both ways here.
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Randigale
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calla_Dragon wrote:
LOL yeah! And girls can kick it too! I'm the only woman in my husband's kung fu class and I think I scare a lot of the men there lol. But I fix stuff around the house, I do yard work and landscaping. I remodel, put up sheetrock, etc. My sons see me do all sorts of "guy" things. They also see me doing lots of "girl" things. In my mind, they're just things that gotta get done, so we do them regardless of gender. Smile

On that same token, my boys see my husband cooking and sewing. They also see him remodeling the house, working on the car, doing yard work. That street runs both ways here.


Here too. Smile You and I would get along great!

I told my kids that the GSA and BSA say that you have to believe in some kind of god in order to join and they both said that was stupid and decided they aren't interested. Made that easy. LOL.

My daughter wants to buy the patch book and earn the badges herself and us buy them. Can you do that?
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure! Why not? Who's to stop you? LOL Smile

Better yet, why not have your daughter design her own patches that she'll receive upon completion of a task/skill?
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auroragold
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: 4H Reply with quote

Have you looked into 4H clubs in your area? You can always start your own chapter if there are none around
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