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momom
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Theodore
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 Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
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California - the land of the fruits and nuts.
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The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers. |
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4given
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Location: S.Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Lily
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, I have trouble taking seriously an article that is deliberately written to be inflammatory on a site that promotes values I don't agree with.
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"The greatest sign of success for a teacher... is to be able to say, "The children are now working as if I did not exist."
- M. Montessori
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abjennings
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Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Lily wrote: |
| Sorry, I have trouble taking seriously an article that is deliberately written to be inflammatory on a site that promotes values I don't agree with. |
ITA!! |
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Theodore
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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Location: Missouri, US
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| Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't matter whether you agree with the site or not, do you support the teaching of communism as a valid worldview in public schools?
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The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers. |
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Lily
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Theodore wrote: |
| Doesn't matter whether you agree with the site or not, do you support the teaching of communism as a valid worldview in public schools? |
Of course I do. I support teaching our children about anything they may be interested in, and exploring the limits and boundaries of each and every interest and the potential benefits or drawbacks thereof. I personally believe that communism is great in theory, but the application does not mesh well with human nature at this time.
I do not agree with the sheltering or hiding of information from our children, and that goes for homeschools as well as public schools.
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"The greatest sign of success for a teacher... is to be able to say, "The children are now working as if I did not exist."
- M. Montessori
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Theodore
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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If you steal from the successful and distribute the money to the unsuccessful, there is no motivation for hard work, therefore everyone ends up equally poor, not equally rich. The only people who come out ahead are the elite, who are perfectly happy to skim off the top while they tell everyone else what they should be thinking.
You can certainly teach about communism, but teaching communism as a valid worldview is totally retarded. Hasn't California already been screwed up enough?
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The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers. |
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4given
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Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 735
Location: S.Indiana
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| As a mother of a retarded son, I really don't like the comparison, Theodore. Retarded is not interchangeable with stupid, ridiculous, ludicrous, moronic, etc. |
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Jazzy
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Lily
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Theodore wrote: |
If you steal from the successful and distribute the money to the unsuccessful, there is no motivation for hard work, therefore everyone ends up equally poor, not equally rich. The only people who come out ahead are the elite, who are perfectly happy to skim off the top while they tell everyone else what they should be thinking.
You can certainly teach about communism, but teaching communism as a valid worldview is totally retarded. Hasn't California already been screwed up enough? |
You are quite welcome to your opinion, Theodore. However, you are not welcome to tell me that my point of view is "retarded". I take offense to your use of the word. It shows your lack of vocabulary skills when you attempt to use such vulgar language to attack an opinion different than your own.
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"The greatest sign of success for a teacher... is to be able to say, "The children are now working as if I did not exist."
- M. Montessori
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Decrease
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Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Verona VA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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There is a radical different mindset in how you teach communism. To teach it from a neutral worldview is first impossible but secondly foolhardy. I am for teaching communism, but placing it in light of a worldview.
The California schools will either treat this as a neutral idea... which it is not... or a positive idea... which it is not. Neutrality is a myth developed by humanists to feel good about discounting certain worldviews without really debating them. To say you want to teach something in a neutral worldview is to be, by definition, biased towards a worldview thus not being neutral. |
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Theodore
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 1994
Location: Missouri, US
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| 4given wrote: |
| As a mother of a retarded son, I really don't like the comparison, Theodore. Retarded is not interchangeable with stupid, ridiculous, ludicrous, moronic, etc. |
Actually, there is little or no difference between the definition for moron and the definition for retard.
Moron: A person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.
If you eliminate that word, however, you do have a point. It was not my intention to insult the mentally challenged by comparing them to liberals or communists, and for that I apologize.
| Lily wrote: |
| You are quite welcome to your opinion, Theodore. However, you are not welcome to tell me that my point of view is "retarded". I take offense to your use of the word. It shows your lack of vocabulary skills when you attempt to use such vulgar language to attack an opinion different than your own. |
Easy to attack my wording, not so easy to explain why teaching communism to children as a valid worldview is beneficial in any way. Historically, communism has killed far more people than both world wars combined, it's about the worst thing you can do short of firing your entire nuclear stockpile into your own country.
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The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers. |
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Lily
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Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| Theodore wrote: |
| Lily wrote: |
| You are quite welcome to your opinion, Theodore. However, you are not welcome to tell me that my point of view is "retarded". I take offense to your use of the word. It shows your lack of vocabulary skills when you attempt to use such vulgar language to attack an opinion different than your own. |
Easy to attack my wording, not so easy to explain why teaching communism to children as a valid worldview is beneficial in any way. Historically, communism has killed far more people than both world wars combined, it's about the worst thing you can do short of firing your entire nuclear stockpile into your own country. |
It's important to explore all the possibilities. Communism, as a theory, is not responsible for killing people. Communism, as a bastardized measure put into place, is. You cannot take a capitalist mind and force communism on it and expect a good outcome. Communism is a utopian idea. However, just like with democracies and republics, it should be taught and examined so that a child can think for him/herself and come to a conclusion.
Theodore, you have insulted me, as a liberal native Californian, and used vulgar language. If you can debate a point successfully without resulting to insults, please do. If you cannot, I think you would do best moderating the threads and not taking part. You certainly are not swaying anyone or sounding knowledgable when you attempt such attacks.
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"The greatest sign of success for a teacher... is to be able to say, "The children are now working as if I did not exist."
- M. Montessori
Proud non-member of the HSLDA |
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Decrease
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Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Verona VA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Lily,
You seem to hold to the idea that I call the "Myth of neutrality", in other words you can teach a topic in relation to a neutral worldview. This, by its very nature, is a myth and impossible for the theory itself is not neutral. I call this the "Myth of Neutrality".
Secondly, you are right the idea of communism did not kill people but people killed people. Yet, the philosophy of communism does have a philosophical structure whereas killing people is not only allowable but necessary.
For instance, communism's philosophical root is that government is the highest authority of all. This one philosophical belief alone, I believe, leads to tyranny. If government is man's highest authority then man is a servant to government and a person has no worth except in what that person gives to government. This has been the view from "The Communist Manifesto" to China to Stalin. Thus, man becomes a slave of the state and and man's value is far less than the entity itself.
That is why people in every communist country have been tortured, killed, and the like... for to oppose the government is to oppose the highest entity possible. |
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