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Withdraw Advice
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kallz
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Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Withdraw Advice Reply with quote

I live in the State of Kentucky. I've read our laws but I'm confused on one matter.

We wish to start homeschooling now vs. waiting until the next school year starts. Our children are 5 years old, 7 years old & almost 9 years old. They go to public school in the County over from where we live. Kentucky law states I must notify within 2 weeks before school starts. What about if you are withdrawing after school has started?

Does anyone know how I should proceed? Thanks for any info!
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Ramona
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Withdraw Advice Reply with quote

IIWY, I'd call the school where they go and ask. My guess would be that they want you to notify them 2 weeks before withdrawing the kids. That may or may not actually be required by law. They may have a form you fill out or a list of things they want you to put in a notification letter.

Ramona
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules apply to your first two weeks, not the first two weeks of the public school year per se. It's also within two weeks, not two weeks in advance:

Home schoolers need only send in a letter... during the first two weeks of school.

Basically, you send it within two weeks of pulling your child out, then you can either send it every year at that date from then on, or if you want to reduce potential confusion, at the start of every school year. I doubt it will make much difference, so long as you show a good faith effort.

Probably a good idea to let the school know immediately, though - don't wait the full two weeks Smile
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Njmom
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning!

We live in NJ. I'd like to know how to go about withdrawing my child from ps so that I can home school our 12 year old child.

Do I just go to the BOE and just withdraw her? Or, is that what the letter of intent is for? I've read through various posts here, and am confused with it to some degree. I've never done this, (newbie to HS here), so, please bear with me.

Ps) Since finding this site, I feel somewhat relieved... the support here that you have for each other is just wonderful! I look forward to being a participating member here because I have family members that think I'm absolutely nuts for wanting to HS my child, and are not helpful with giving me or my child the emotional support that we need for this at this time.
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Ramona
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about NJ. In some places you have to do two different things.

1) Do whatever paperwork your state law requires to officially withdraw the student from public school. The principal's office can probably tell you.

2) Do whatever paperwork the state law requires to begin homeschooling. That's what the notice of intent (or whatever NJ calls it) is for.

Sometimes you're supposed to notify the school that you're going to withdraw the student 2 weeks before the student's last day. Sometimes you're supposed to inform them of your intent to homeschool 2 weeks before you start doing so. It varies.

Ramona
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Njmom
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramona wrote:
I don't know about NJ. In some places you have to do two different things.

1) Do whatever paperwork your state law requires to officially withdraw the student from public school. The principal's office can probably tell you.

2) Do whatever paperwork the state law requires to begin homeschooling. That's what the notice of intent (or whatever NJ calls it) is for.

Sometimes you're supposed to notify the school that you're going to withdraw the student 2 weeks before the student's last day. Sometimes you're supposed to inform them of your intent to homeschool 2 weeks before you start doing so. It varies.

Ramona


Ramona, thank you for the quick response. Smile

After posting this morning, I promptly called our BOE to get more detailed information. I was directed to a Dr. that handles these calls and was told that she could give me more infomation.

Well, let me tell you, I don't know if they are doing this purposely, but when I was transferred to this Dr. I asked her, "What do I need to send you or do, to homeschool our child?" Her response was not one that I had expected from a Dr. She proceeded to tell me, "She had no idea and that she would have to look at the BOE Policy on it and that I should contact the Middle School to get more information." I had all I could do not to laugh!

I've since been online all this time looking for more information on what needs to be done to withdraw my child. I found this, http://www.enochnj.org/index.php/getting_started, which is a good starting point for infomation and sample letters.

However, I can't help but get the feeling that:

1) they, the BOE and the Middle school will keep telling me they don't know, and that I should call so and so for more information. I don't wish to play phone tag with these people.

2) the possible legal entaglements that they could bring on to me and my family just because I want to homeschool my child... we just cannot afford an Attorney at this time.

With that said, I'm really going to dig down deep, reach out to some others here, and in our area that could help me get through this. I want to be well informed and prepared for my next step. My daughter needs this and wants this. And, by golly, I'm going to exhaust every avenue I can to do this for her!
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Ramona
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard of a BOE having anything to do with this, so I'm not surprised that they weren't much help.

As far as withdrawing a child, talking to the administration of the local school itself is usually the best bet in my experience, and to homeschool it's usually through the school district administration--the superintendent and other paid professionals (as opposed to an elected school board).

Most public schools and districts aren't familiar with homeschooling. The state law/department of ed requires them to handle it, but they don't know exactly what they're supposed to do or they haven't done it before. They aren't in the business of helping homeschoolers. There are usually relatively very few homeschooling families within any given district compared to the number of families who *are* attending their school(s).

Homeschooling is legal in New Jersey. There really aren't too many legal entanglements they can get you into solely because you want to homeschool.

Many beginning homeschoolers join HSLDA right from the start so they can get help with this any time they need it. That's the Home School Legal Defense...uh, association? I forget what the A is for. Anyway, that's what it is. It's based in Virginia but has connections in every state.

Definitely reaching out to other homeschoolers in your area should get you most of the information you need.

Best wishes,
Ramona
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Njmom
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramona wrote:
I've never heard of a BOE having anything to do with this, so I'm not surprised that they weren't much help.

As far as withdrawing a child, talking to the administration of the local school itself is usually the best bet in my experience, and to homeschool it's usually through the school district administration--the superintendent and other paid professionals (as opposed to an elected school board).

Most public schools and districts aren't familiar with homeschooling. The state law/department of ed requires them to handle it, but they don't know exactly what they're supposed to do or they haven't done it before. They aren't in the business of helping homeschoolers. There are usually relatively very few homeschooling families within any given district compared to the number of families who *are* attending their school(s).

Homeschooling is legal in New Jersey. There really aren't too many legal entanglements they can get you into solely because you want to homeschool.

Many beginning homeschoolers join HSLDA right from the start so they can get help with this any time they need it. That's the Home School Legal Defense...uh, association? I forget what the A is for. Anyway, that's what it is. It's based in Virginia but has connections in every state.

Definitely reaching out to other homeschoolers in your area should get you most of the information you need.

Best wishes,
Ramona


Ramona,

I thought they would have known, at least something about it. Smile

So as to not confuse myself further, please correct me if I'm wrong. The first step for withdrawing my child: should be calling the Administration of the school that she attends to find out "how" to withdraw her from that school, period, right? And if they should ask me why, do I have to tell them that it's because I want to HS her? If they tell me I can't withdraw her, should I recite the Massa decision to them?

Then, once she's withdrawn, I write the letter of Intent to HS, and that she will be withdrawn on x date; attach a copy of the Massa decision, then send both papers by way of USPS, Certified, Return Receipt to the superintendent of our SD, to notify him/her of this, correct? Oh, and Is the date of withdrawal the same date that I use here on these papers I send?

Also, am I correct with the understanding that I don't have to include a curriculum along with the letter of Intent and the Massa decision? That I shouldn't send it unless they request it in writing? And, if they do, that I should so that we don't run into problems later on? What if I don't have one figured out yet? What should I do? She's been really sick. She needs to concentrate on getting better. I'm all for deschooling her, and allowing her the time she needs to make a full recovery.

I realize that NJ might not have that many legal entanglements with HS, but living here has taught me one thing: Be prepared, you never know. Smile

BTW, you were right. It is Association. Thanks for that link. I will be signing up, even if it's only for one year, it's worth it.

On a final note, a family member of mine called today, which was unexpected because she did not support me in my decision to HS. Anyway, she knows a local teacher who homeschooled her own children in this area. She is not that far from me, actually. I'm really looking forward to speaking with her soon. Smile
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Ramona
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't know anything about NJ. I've never lived there, and I've never looked at anything about NJ state education law until just now when I went to that link you posted above to ENOCH's site and from there I went to the HSLDA summary.

All I know is that usually, in most states, the first step to start homeschooling a student who is currently enrolled in public school is to take the child out of the public school legally. As far as I know it's none of their business why you're taking your child out of their school. You could be putting her in a private school, you could be moving out of the district. She could be accepted at a university. It's simply none of their business. If they ask, you can feel free to say, "Personal reasons" or something like that. Or you can just give them a hard stare. If they ask you to fill out some form and that's one of the questions, you can write "family reasons" on the blank or just leave it empty. But I really have no idea what NJ law says about any of that.

If they tell you that you can't homeschool her, you don't need to go so far as to recite legalities proving it. All you need to do is tell them "Homeschooling is absolutely legal in New Jersey" and smile charmingly. (Besides, it looks like the schools are required to prove that you're not educating your child up to the law. You're not required to prove that you *are*.)

According to the HSLDA summary, you don't need a NOI in NJ. You don't need to do anything after you withdraw her from the public school.

According to the HSLDA summary, there's no minimum number of days she needs to do schoolwork each year, so you may deschool her for as long as you see fit.

Am I reading the summary wrong?

All the things you're saying that you think you need to do look like *way* overkill to me, but what do I know?

Did you get them from the ENOCH site? I didn't read the whole site.

Ramona
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Njmom
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramona wrote:
I really don't know anything about NJ. I've never lived there, and I've never looked at anything about NJ state education law until just now when I went to that link you posted above to ENOCH's site and from there I went to the HSLDA summary.

All I know is that usually, in most states, the first step to start homeschooling a student who is currently enrolled in public school is to take the child out of the public school legally. As far as I know it's none of their business why you're taking your child out of their school. You could be putting her in a private school, you could be moving out of the district. She could be accepted at a university. It's simply none of their business. If they ask, you can feel free to say, "Personal reasons" or something like that. Or you can just give them a hard stare. If they ask you to fill out some form and that's one of the questions, you can write "family reasons" on the blank or just leave it empty. But I really have no idea what NJ law says about any of that.

If they tell you that you can't homeschool her, you don't need to go so far as to recite legalities proving it. All you need to do is tell them "Homeschooling is absolutely legal in New Jersey" and smile charmingly. (Besides, it looks like the schools are required to prove that you're not educating your child up to the law. You're not required to prove that you *are*.)

According to the HSLDA summary, you don't need a NOI in NJ. You don't need to do anything after you withdraw her from the public school.

According to the HSLDA summary, there's no minimum number of days she needs to do schoolwork each year, so you may deschool her for as long as you see fit.

Am I reading the summary wrong?

All the things you're saying that you think you need to do look like *way* overkill to me, but what do I know?

Did you get them from the ENOCH site? I didn't read the whole site.

Ramona


Ramona,

I hope it's as easy as that! That would really help my girl. Smile

I don't think you read the summary wrong... now that I look at it again.
I agree, it does seem "way" overkill. I did not get that from the ENOCH site. It was another one. A post from someone from NJ who HS. Not here on this forum, though. I'd post the link for that page, but it's located on my other pc and the site name escapes me at this time. If I wasn't so tired, I get it now. I'll find it tomorrow. Smile

Edited: Here is the additional information that I couldn't find at the time I posted this. Smile

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=936431

See number 3 & 4 once the page comes up.
http://www.state.nj.us/education/genfo/overview/faq_homeschool.htm
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elliemaejune
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Njmom wrote:
Good morning!

We live in NJ. I'd like to know how to go about withdrawing my child from ps so that I can home school our 12 year old child.

Do I just go to the BOE and just withdraw her? Or, is that what the letter of intent is for? I've read through various posts here, and am confused with it to some degree. I've never done this, (newbie to HS here), so, please bear with me..

NJ is one of the best states for hsing. There are no requirements at all.

However, because your dc is currently enrolled in school, you will need to officially withdraw her, because if you don't, someone will think your dd is truant, and trouble will follow. Sad

So this is what I would recommend: Write a letter to your dc's school principle/administration, stating that you are withdrawing your dc. You don't have to give the school any info about what your hs plans look like; in fact, it is STRONGLY recommended that you don't tell them anything the law doesn't require. Your letter is not a notice of intent or anything, and you don't have to have anyone's permission, or fill out any kind of homeschooling forms; if your dd were not already in school, you wouldn't have to say anything to anyone.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliemaejune wrote:
Njmom wrote:
Good morning!

We live in NJ. I'd like to know how to go about withdrawing my child from ps so that I can home school our 12 year old child.

Do I just go to the BOE and just withdraw her? Or, is that what the letter of intent is for? I've read through various posts here, and am confused with it to some degree. I've never done this, (newbie to HS here), so, please bear with me..

NJ is one of the best states for hsing. There are no requirements at all.

However, because your dc is currently enrolled in school, you will need to officially withdraw her, because if you don't, someone will think your dd is truant, and trouble will follow. Sad

So this is what I would recommend: Write a letter to your dc's school principle/administration, stating that you are withdrawing your dc. You don't have to give the school any info about what your hs plans look like; in fact, it is STRONGLY recommended that you don't tell them anything the law doesn't require. Your letter is not a notice of intent or anything, and you don't have to have anyone's permission, or fill out any kind of homeschooling forms; if your dd were not already in school, you wouldn't have to say anything to anyone.


Hi elliemaejune!

Thank you for responding to this thread.

I have not done anything as of yet, because I've been busy with my daughters doctors, and any time I have left over is spent in researching for more information on this. Ramona and I thought it was a bit overkill, but what I found yesterday, backs up the advice you are giving me elliemayjune. Smile

I found this: http://www.enochnj.org/pdf/genleg.pdf

As far as writing a letter, which to my understanding is a NOI that is to be written and sent to the BOE Superintendent. And, to legally withdraw her, I should send the same one to the Principal of her school too? Good thing I didn't do anything. I thought when one withdraws their child, that they just go to the school in person and request to withdraw them. I have no idea. This is all so new to me. I feel a bit overwhelmed with it all.

Sample here: http://www.enochnj.org/pdf/samplet.pdf

Given your advice, this sample is not what I should be sending, right? If not, do you have a sample one that you could post for me?

I'm a wreck over all of this. My daughter is not getting any better and its really taking its toll on us. She wants to HS now, but all the info I see, clearly states that I really should wait till either the beginning of the school year, or the end of the year before doing so. And, given the fact that we don't need trouble, I had to sit her down and have a good heart to heart with her about this. It's killing me to see her sad about having to wait till the end of this year, but she will do her best in spite of being ill and doesn't want to be looked upon as a quitter just because she'd rather be HS. I on the other hand don't care what they think. I'd rather HS her now. They are not the ones watching her busting her butt gettin all of her missed work completed so that she can pass the second quarter which ends next week. She's pouring her heart and soul into her work and it's all for nothing... they will fail her in spite of her efforts. That in itself, makes me really upset.
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elliemaejune
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Njmom wrote:
Hi elliemaejune!

Thank you for responding to this thread.

I have not done anything as of yet, because I've been busy with my daughters doctors, and any time I have left over is spent in researching for more information on this. Ramona and I thought it was a bit overkill, but what I found yesterday, backs up the advice you are giving me elliemayjune. Smile

I found this: http://www.enochnj.org/pdf/genleg.pdf

As far as writing a letter, which to my understanding is a NOI that is to be written and sent to the BOE Superintendent. And, to legally withdraw her, I should send the same one to the Principal of her school too? Good thing I didn't do anything. I thought when one withdraws their child, that they just go to the school in person and request to withdraw them. I have no idea. This is all so new to me. I feel a bit overwhelmed with it all.

Sample here: http://www.enochnj.org/pdf/samplet.pdf

Given your advice, this sample is not what I should be sending, right? If not, do you have a sample one that you could post for me?

I'm a wreck over all of this. My daughter is not getting any better and its really taking its toll on us. She wants to HS now, but all the info I see, clearly states that I really should wait till either the beginning of the school year, or the end of the year before doing so. And, given the fact that we don't need trouble, I had to sit her down and have a good heart to heart with her about this. It's killing me to see her sad about having to wait till the end of this year, but she will do her best in spite of being ill and doesn't want to be looked upon as a quitter just because she'd rather be HS. I on the other hand don't care what they think. I'd rather HS her now. They are not the ones watching her busting her butt gettin all of her missed work completed so that she can pass the second quarter which ends next week. She's pouring her heart and soul into her work and it's all for nothing... they will fail her in spite of her efforts. That in itself, makes me really upset.

I read the link you have and I have a couple of comments.

There is NO reason to wait until the end of the school year. I don't know where you read that, but if anything, it is commonly recommended that you withdraw a child during a major break, such as Christmas, but I haven't ever read anything that said to wait until the school year is out. And here's the thing: NJ has an EXCELLENT law. Although I strongly recommend HSLDA membership because you just can't be too careful, I don't think you have much to fear.

To clarify, when you notify the school people, you are NOT sending a Notice of Intent. "NOI" is specific legal wording. You are just telling those in authority that your dc will not be coming back. The ONLY reason you do it is so that no one will think your dc is truant, which may be likely if she just quits showing up.

Anyway, I disagree with the ENOCH people about including "list of the curriculum being used and scope-andsequence." Absolutely not. The rule of thumb is that you never do more than the law requires (notifying the school is not required by law, but it *is* common sense!).

*I* would not have thought to tell anyone except the principal/other administrator. It would not have occurred to me to notify the school district/board/superintendant. I'm not telling you not to; I'm just saying it isn't something *I* would do.

This is what *I* would do were I in your situation: Join HSLDA (and you'd be required to have some sort of educational plan for your membership to be accepted) by E-mailing/faxing/sending by overnight mail Send a certified letter to the school saying my dd would not be back. Start hsing. The end.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I read the link you have and I have a couple of comments.

There is NO reason to wait until the end of the school year. I don't know where you read that, but if anything, it is commonly recommended that you withdraw a child during a major break, such as Christmas, but I haven't ever read anything that said to wait until the school year is out. And here's the thing: NJ has an EXCELLENT law. Although I strongly recommend HSLDA membership because you just can't be too careful, I don't think you have much to fear.

To clarify, when you notify the school people, you are NOT sending a Notice of Intent. "NOI" is specific legal wording. You are just telling those in authority that your dc will not be coming back. The ONLY reason you do it is so that no one will think your dc is truant, which may be likely if she just quits showing up.

Anyway, I disagree with the ENOCH people about including "list of the curriculum being used and scope-andsequence." Absolutely not. The rule of thumb is that you never do more than the law requires (notifying the school is not required by law, but it *is* common sense!).

*I* would not have thought to tell anyone except the principal/other administrator. It would not have occurred to me to notify the school district/board/superintendant. I'm not telling you not to; I'm just saying it isn't something *I* would do.

This is what *I* would do were I in your situation: Join HSLDA (and you'd be required to have some sort of educational plan for your membership to be accepted) by E-mailing/faxing/sending by overnight mail Send a certified letter to the school saying my dd would not be back. Start hsing. The end.


Good morning elliemaejune!

Thank you for posting a response. Smile

I'd rather not wait till the end of the school year, personally. We have been through enough already with the PS here. But according to the enochnj (first link - fourth paragraph), is where I read that information, and it is what they advise to do if you choose to HS.

You mention, that it is commonly reccommended that you withdraw a child during a major break. Have you heard of anyone withdrawing during Spring break/recess?

I agree with your thoughts on joining the HSLDA. I like what I see there, and will take that into account. Would you happen to know if membership is instant once you pay? Or, does it take 2-4 weeks to process? (I think I saw that somewhere on there... can't remember.)

And on the NOI bit... that's fine by me that I shouldn't send one. It's better for many reasons. Most importantly, it preserves our rights as parents. Would something like this be better to send instead of the NOI? I realize you wouldn't send this to the Superintendent, but I believe somewhere (HSLDA? I'll have to look again.) They recommended -to "legally" withdraw a student here in NJ you had to send one to both, the Super and the Principal.

"Date,

Dear Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. Superintendent, Principal

Effective immediately, I am withdrawing my child, Jane Doe, from the Your Town Public School District.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Your Spouses Name (optional)"

Also, if this letter above will suffice, should I request a copy of my dd school records at that time as well? (I'm gonna go google now). Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd rather not wait till the end of the school year, personally. We have been through enough already with the PS here. But according to the enochnj (first link - fourth paragraph), is where I read that information, and it is what they advise to do if you choose to HS.


I'm really surprised by ENOCH's position. NJ is a "green state," one which HSLDA considers to be in the uber-easy category. Many people work through fear (there's a similar situation in NC), and I think they're plain wrong. Even HSLDA, the ultimate legal resource IMHO, doesn't take such a radical position as not withdrawing a child in the middle of the school year.

It's JMHO, but I say go for it (as long as you've thought carefully about what you're doing, which you have).

Quote:
You mention, that it is commonly reccommended that you withdraw a child during a major break. Have you heard of anyone withdrawing during Spring break/recess?

After Christmas vacation, spring break/Easter vacation is the most common. Oh yeah...that's when I started. Smile

Quote:
I agree with your thoughts on joining the HSLDA. I like what I see there, and will take that into account. Would you happen to know if membership is instant once you pay? Or, does it take 2-4 weeks to process? (I think I saw that somewhere on there... can't remember.)

It depends. You should call and ask.

Quote:
And on the NOI bit... that's fine by me that I shouldn't send one. It's better for many reasons. Most importantly, it preserves our rights as parents. Would something like this be better to send instead of the NOI? I realize you wouldn't send this to the Superintendent, but I believe somewhere (HSLDA? I'll have to look again.) They recommended -to "legally" withdraw a student here in NJ you had to send one to both, the Super and the Principal.


Um...no, I don't think the law require you to notify both. In fact, the law doesn't require you to notify ANYONE. You're just telling the school your dc won't be back so that they won't think your dd is just truant and send out their henchmen. Again, it's not a notice of intent.

Quote:
"Date,

Dear Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. Superintendent, Principal

Effective immediately, I am withdrawing my child, Jane Doe, from the Your Town Public School District.

Sincerely,

Your Name
Your Spouses Name (optional)"

Looks good to me, although HSLDA might recommend that you tell the school that you'll be homeschooling. You should check. Smile

Quote:
Also, if this letter above will suffice, should I request a copy of my dd school records at that time as well? (I'm gonna go google now).

That's what *I* would do, although I'd ask for the originals first. You might or might not get them, even though legally you're at least supposed to be able to have photocopies of everything in it (and you might be charged for the photocopying).
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