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Tremendous hostility over homeschooling
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:07 pm    Post subject: Tremendous hostility over homeschooling Reply with quote

This may be stating the obvious, but has anyone else ever noticed the enormous potential for the mere subject of homeschooling to create tremendous and intense hostility among non-homeschoolers and/or anti-homeschoolers. I'm involved in a discussion about homsechooling on another forums and one of the people involved is apparently an ardent anti-homeschooler (as in thinks parents should be stripped of their choice to educate their kids at home immediately and everything).

It doesn't seem to matter what facts I present, he's throwing every mistruth and myth about homeschooling out there. When I refute with the facts, what I get back is insults, name calling and mud slinging. Apparently when you're out of ammo, it's still possible to attack. Even others involved in the thread are telling this person to lay off with the hostility, but apparently my mere presence and fact that I homeschool strikes a nerve.

I just thought it was interesting how homeschooling has such a volitility about it it sets people off like a fireworks display sans fuses on the 4th.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to rationally debate with liberals is rather pointless. They don't want to bother defending their position (because it's indefensible), so they attack you personally instead.

Look at it as just another example of how our public school system has failed. Group think has won - either you agree with the majority or you must be a nut job.
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frogguruami
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
Trying to rationally debate with liberals is rather pointless.


Unfortunately, generalizations and stereotypes cause problems all around.
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Lily
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only noticed the hostility in people who are uncomfortable with their own decisions or want to shove theirs down your throat. My sister is a prime case of that. We haven't talked in years, but she caught wind of the fact that we homeschool and the mudslinging started. The funniest bit was that homeschoolers couldn't join the military. (I'm ex-military, I worked with homeschooled grads, Laughing) Even after being corrected many times, the tune or arguments never change.

I don't really care. It works for us - if someone else has an issue with it, they can talk all they want and it wouldn't bother me a bit. However, if it happened on a message board and the comments were increasingly hostile, I'd wonder what was wrong with the mods and why they were ignoring it.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This person has a child that is in the public school system and tried to tell me that since they supplement the child's education, they're homeschoolers lol.

There are now two people who are going after homeschooling hardcore and not to generalize, but these two are hard core liberals.

As for mods, it's a largely unmoderated, but private board. We've all known each other for years and one of the sections is notorious for getting nasty. The general rule is either deal with it or don't participate.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frogguruami: Ultimately, much of life is patterns and stereotypes, since it's impossible to intimately know every individual on earth, so you end up extrapolating based off past experience. My point is that liberals tend to ignore the past experience part and depend more on what everyone else is thinking, which makes it easy for them to reach an incorrect point of view and then blindly stick to it. I'm certainly not saying that all liberals are like this - in fact, a fair number homeschool - but the liberal point of view does seem to either attract or produce unoriginal thinkers. I could write a whole essay on why I think this is, but I'm not going to do so here.

Ratio of swear words between liberal and conservative blogs is 18:1

Liberal or conservative, though, anyone who holds x point of view but isn't willing to explain why or defend his position, is just mentally lazy. Once someone starts attacking you and not specific points of your argument, you've already won the debate.

When in doubt, just ask "Why?" That one word stumps quite a few people Smile
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frogguruami
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
but the liberal point of view does seem to either attract or produce unoriginal thinkers.


I guess I just found it ironic. The OP is having issues with this person (at least this is my take on it...) because he is misinformed and perpetuating myths and unwilling to educate himself or be educated. (Not to mention the name calling!!) And then to show support for the OP, another myth is being perpetuated. I don't think being an unoriginal thinker has anything to do with being liberal or conservative. I have met plenty of people on both sides of the fence that fit that description.

Theodore wrote:
Liberal or conservative, though, anyone who holds x point of view but isn't willing to explain why or defend his position, is just mentally lazy.


I totally agree with you!!

Theodore wrote:
When in doubt, just ask "Why?" That one word stumps quite a few people Smile


This is definitely the most efficient way to end a conversation with someone uninformed on a subject. Laughing
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was of course a gross generalization, and I saw the irony in too Smile But in terms of demographics, liberals are mostly the poor and the inherited rich, while conservatives are mostly everything in between. The poor are typically less educated and therefore more willing to believe anything they hear, while the rich form the elite and sort of guide the poor to the "right" point of view (theirs). Since the liberal point of view is all about more government control over every part of life, and a big part of that is the school system, you end up with a lot of liberals blindly hating homeschoolers because homeschoolers are outside the system and no longer under government control. We must be all turning into whack jobs conspiring to overthrow the government! Plus, we're taking tax dollars away from our local schools - oh noes.

Actually, homeschooling just breeds independent thinkers, people who think through an issue, arrive at a conclusion, and stick to it regardless of what everyone else thinks. If you happen to arrive at the liberal point of view, then I might try to convince you otherwise through facts and statistics, but it won't bother me too much so long as you did the thinking part first.

Caveats to the above:
- Not all poor blindly believe
- Not all middle class think things through
- Not all rich are elitists
- Not all poor are liberals
- Not all middle class are conservatives
- Not all inherited rich are liberals
- Liberals are not always wrong
- Conservatives are not always right

Overall, though, what I said was correct. If it doesn't apply to you, then it wasn't meant to harm you, and I apologize.

I'm not sure whether I should have posted this or not, but it seemed such a pity to delete it after the time I spent writing it Smile
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StellarStory
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen that sort of hostility on sites I'm on before. If you don't get defensive and continue to use facts, logic with well written posts, I think it can help some. If you begin to attack, you lose IMO.

Jerks will show themselves to be jerks without our help. Ignorance will out as well.

I'm in a fairly unique position. I can state clearly what I thought about home schooling when I was fairly ignorant about it and what I know about now that I've researched it and lived it.
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TeachingMyOwnAtHome
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found, as mentioned previously, that people get quite defensive to even aggressive about the mere mention of homeschooling when they are comfortable with how their own children are being educated. Rolling Eyes

However, that reaction is
NOTHING compared to the ones I have received from teachers, particularly retired teachers. Shocked
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere that like 98% of teachers believe homeschooling is worse than public schooling. The last 2% are probably homeschooling their kids, since at least 2-3 people here on the forum are public school teachers.
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theodore wrote:
I read somewhere that like 98% of teachers believe homeschooling is worse than public schooling. The last 2% are probably homeschooling their kids, since at least 2-3 people here on the forum are public school teachers.


My MIL threw an absolute fit when we told her we were homeschooling (she's a teacher...go figure). Since she's come to accept it because she sees the boys doing so well, but she still thinks that public school is the best place for kids. Mine just happen to be the exception to the rule, of course... Rolling Eyes
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StellarStory
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a couple of friends that were cool about home schooling but NO one else in either family liked the idea. They really wanted to talk me out of it.

My mother used to be a teacher and a principal. She was particularly against it. It's strange to me because she taught me at home long before I was old enough to go to school. I thought she'd get it. She's always wanted me to be a teacher. It was a job I never wanted to have in a school system because of the paperwork and regulations they have to struggle under.

I have always enjoyed teaching in other ways and facilitating learning though.

I think it makes sense for most people with education degrees, particularly older ones, to be against home schooling. It goes counter to what they learned and what they believe will help the schools they teach or taught in.

These days many of the teachers I deal with in my job or socially don't have any problem with home schooling. Many people I talk to "wish" they could home school.
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Tremendous hostility over homeschooling Reply with quote

Calla_Dragon wrote:
This may be stating the obvious, but has anyone else ever noticed the enormous potential for the mere subject of homeschooling to create tremendous and intense hostility among non-homeschoolers and/or anti-homeschoolers. I'm involved in a discussion about homsechooling on another forums and one of the people involved is apparently an ardent anti-homeschooler (as in thinks parents should be stripped of their choice to educate their kids at home immediately and everything).

It doesn't seem to matter what facts I present, he's throwing every mistruth and myth about homeschooling out there. When I refute with the facts, what I get back is insults, name calling and mud slinging. Apparently when you're out of ammo, it's still possible to attack. Even others involved in the thread are telling this person to lay off with the hostility, but apparently my mere presence and fact that I homeschool strikes a nerve.

I just thought it was interesting how homeschooling has such a volitility about it it sets people off like a fireworks display sans fuses on the 4th.


Is it really any wonder that the majority of people think homeschooling is a really "bad thing?"

Biting at the heels of homeschooling's gain in popularity was the National Educator's Association (NEA) attitude against it. This is in their resolutions:

Quote:
B-75. Home Schooling The National Education Association believes that home schooling programs based on parental choice cannot provide the student with a comprehensive education experience. When home schooling occurs, students enrolled must meet all state curricular requirements, including the taking and passing of assessments to ensure adequate academic progress. Home schooling should be limited to the children of the immediate family, with all expenses being borne by the parents/guardians. Instruction should be by persons who are licensed by the appropriate state education licensure agency, and a curriculum approved by the state department of education should be used. The Association also believes that home-schooled students should not participate in any extracurricular activities in the public schools. The Association further believes that local public school systems should have the authority to determine grade placement and/or credits earned toward graduation for students entering or re-entering the public school setting from a home school setting. (1988, 2006)


Then they publish articles to their membership like this one:
Home Schools Run By Well-Meaning Amateurs
Schools With Good Teachers Are Best-Suited to Shape Young Minds


Remember that the NEA is not an elected office to oversee education, but it is a very powerful union for the teachers' jobs that has acted outside of its scope upon many occasion. For example, the NEA supports pro-choice activities, including past rallies in Washington. (What does that have to do with protecting teacher jobs?)... and most of the children enrolled in public schools are being taught by NEA teachers (not that all agree with the resolutions, but they are in the union that promotes them).

As to attitudes in general against homeschooling, being unconventional makes those doing the conventional thing uncomfortable. I often remind myself that I am not homeschooling to gain others' approval, but I will meet their objections so that it can educate others about homeschooling on forums. Debating the pros and cons of homeschooling will most likely not change a mind set against it, but how you handle yourself in the debate speaks more about homeschooling in general than you can know for the other who are reading. To me, there is no win or lose in debating, until one of the debaters loses his composure. It sounds to me like you won to me. Wink
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Calla_Dragon
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, yes and no lol. This forum is much different from the norm in the sense that most of the people on there have known each other for 4-5 years and many people have met in real life. The conversation went on for 11 pages of posts lol. In the end, one of the anti-homeschoolers said they were going to revise their opinions based on things I said. The other anti-homeschooler just continued to twist my words and trying to claim things I never said to make homeschooling the opposite of what it is. He couldn't argue with me based on what I really said so he had to start making stuff up. He's a lawyer (nothing against lawyers) but it was classic of how lawyers try to fry people on the stand. I called him on that and he got really hostile toward me. All in all, an amusing conversation.
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