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Avoidance
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carsmom
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Joined: 17 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Avoidance Reply with quote

I am doing some research for a college project about homeschooling. I was not homeschooled, nor do I plan to homeschool my children. Although I feel like there are a lot of benefits that come with homeschooling, I think a lot of parents choose it to avoid the real issues, rather than dealing with them. For example, when kids are bullied or fall behind in a course subject. Is this option avoidance or assistance? I would appreciate any advice and your opinions. Thanks
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4given
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello! I am a HS mom with four sons. We have HSed for a total of 4 years. My two oldest spent 2 years in PS. They were both very popular and well-liked, as well as, straight A students. So, bullying and falling behind do not apply in our case. Our number one reason for HSing is due to religious convictions. Many, many other reasons come in a close second.

My question to you would be..."What's wrong with avoidance?"

If a child is suffering from bullying, day in and day out, why not "avoid" future problems? If a child is falling behind, why not "avoid" any further falling behind?

If a parent chooses to HS based on either of the above examples, tell me how is that "avoiding the real issues rather than dealing with them"? Avoidance is not the same as running, hiding and denying there is an issue to be addressed.

Have you looked at what's happening in PS today? It seems to me that HS is a very logical and practical solution.
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momo3boys
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My oldest son was in K and 1st. He was not bullied but was a full grade level behind because the school hadn't addressed his issues until the end of his 1st grade year. They wanted him to move on to the next grade, that he wasn't ready for, and double his class size at the same time. I'd say that the school was the one that was having the avoidance issues. He is now doing so much better, and is one of the most social children I have ever seen! No one can walk by my house with out talking to him.

As far as bullying goes, why is it avoidance for us as parents to teach our children how to deal with bullying? Some schools try to "deal" with it, and most schools avoid the issue. They ignore it thinking that these children who have never been taught how to handle a bully, can figure out what to do. The children aren't being "taught" they are being ignored. The best way to not avoid it, is to be aware of the problem and teach your child what to do. That is something that very few schools do.

As far as avoiding issues, I think that homeschool parents are much better at facing the problem than the public schools. By that's just IMHO.
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Cally
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you might want to study up on bullying and the effects it has on children. I saw a whole site on the internet that told of children who took their lives because of bullying. Puts a whole different spin on your question doesn't it? Those sweet sad parents would love to be telling you yes I avoided it and so what!?

Also you might want to study up on failure in school and what that does to someone's future. The mom who still has her child living with her because he can't get job. All because he didn't do well in school.

We made a choice for our families, you made a choice for your family. I don't think in any way you are avoiding teaching your own child. I don't think the lady next door is avoiding non christian people because she sends her child to christian school. I think that parents should be proactive and do what is best for their child. I know I do, and as sure as bee's love honey, I can bet you do!

Homeschooling is just one of the many options available for a childs schooling. It just happens to be the one we chose.

Good Luck with that paper!
Cally
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Older children can see bullying for what it is and deal with it fairly well; younger children often feel that there's something wrong with them and just withdraw into themselves. No grade school-age child should ever have to go through being bullied if the situation can be avoided, imho.

What doesn't kill you, often makes you crippled instead.
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keptwoman
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DS was at school for 2 1/2 years, we removed him due to bullying AND failure. Let me elaborate:

Bullying: I'm proud that we have taught our children that a toxic environment where bad treatment of others is condoned is not an environment one should stay in. If you have done what you can to fix the problem and the problem persists then best get out I say.
Would you stay in a work environment where one of the employees was bullying you and management would not do anything about it? No, you would look for another job with a happier environment.

Failure: My son is not stupid, he has learning disabilities. He is a clever kid who sits in the 97th percentile for some skills and much lower in others. If he is taught with due consideration to his strengths and weaknesses he learns very quickly.
He had decided after 2 years in the system that he was "dumb" I spent the first 10 weeks undoing the damage the school had done, everything I asked him to do it was "I can't" "I don't know how" "It's too hard" "I don't understand" etc.........Now he is whizzing ahead with his work and proud of his acheivements, you don't hear defeatest talk coming out of his mouth any more because he knows he can do it. If that's avoidance, bring it on!

Lastly I would like to mention that he hated school with a passion, getting him out the door each day was a battle of wills. Every afternoon I was met with an unhappy, very angry kid who made everyone in the family miserable.

After a particularly awful week I decided that we had both had enough and he quite simply didn't go back the next day. You should have seen the change in him! Our angry sad little boy opened up and became a joy to be around. I have already said how much his learning improved and he streaked ahead with his reading which he had really struggled with at school.

I read an article a few months ago that sent my blood boiling. It was about "school refusers," kids like mine who hated school and didn't want to be there. It was written by a psycologist and it suggested counselling, behaviour therapy, family therapy and last and (to me) most appallingly DRUGS. It didn't suggest that the school might be at fault, it laid the blame squarely on the child, suggested you drug them and send them on back. THAT is avoidance!! Homeschool parents face the issue and solve it, it may not be the solution that society deems best, but it is the solution best for our children and they are the ones that count.
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Kimberly
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Keptwoman, my heart broke as I read about your little boy. You were so wise to pull him out.

I don't have a lot to add to this conversation. The rest of you have said it so well. But I wanted to give one illustration that I heard a few years ago. Think of your children as young plants. If they are kept protected and nurtured in a greenhouse (our home) for many years, they will be stronger and more able to stand against the outdoor weather (college, workforce etc) some day.
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keptwoman
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually days like today when he is tired and his LDs are playing up and the whole day is just a nightmare from beginning to end, I think it would be nice to send him back Laughing But hey, those days are the exception and sending him back would be avoiding dealing with the issues at hand eh.
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Sandra, Homeschooling Mum in Australia
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Kimberly
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I know what you mean. There are days I want to put the whole lot of them on that yellow school bus and send them off for the day. But in my heart, I know I could never do that. Thankfully, those days are getting fewer and farther between.
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gardening momma
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was in high school, I knew a girl from a different school whose parents pulled her out of school because she was being bullied to the extent of violence and death threats, and the school didn't do anything about it. Sounds like a smart move, not avoidance.
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carsmom
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your opinions.

My stand is this: there are many ways to deal wbith undesirable situations. And avoiding and running are in many ways the same thing. I am aware of what is going on in public schools today and I was bullied in high school. This experience taught me a lot about who I am, I learned my strength and courage. My question now is how you have actually helped your kids by taking them out of school, especially once they are in college or at a job? How will they handle themselves?

Another important question:
How are you planning to make the transition into college?
The school I attend does not accept students who have been homeschooled without a GED. Is this something your kids will have to deal with?

One more thing, what is the d abbreviation in dd, ds?

Thank you!
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keptwoman
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DD and DS are dear son and dear daughter.

To be honest it sounds like you have chosen a subject with an end in mind and it wouldn't matter what we said as you have already decided we are avoiding the problem. But I will answer your questions.

I think I have explained how I helped my son, I have taught him that a toxic environment is not an acceptable one. If you do what you can to fix the problem and it continues because of systems failure/bad school culture then there is no point staying. I have had a job with a similarly toxic environment and my answer wasn't sit and put up with it, it was get another job. I hope my children realise they should do the same, life is far to short to spend most of ones day in a place that makes you miserable.

If it was just the bullying I probably would have found him a new school with a better culture because I know that some schools are much better at dealing with these things. With the LD issues as well we felt moving to a new school was just moving the problem from one place to another. We had to tackle the problem before putting him back into school.

I could have kept him in school and got tutoring outside of school hours, but kids need time to be kids. After school is for play and relaxing not extra hours of work! By teaching him one on one he is catching back up with his peers at school and getting a good grounding.

Currently I plan for my children to attend highschool, so college entrance will be no issue.

I also plan to homeschool my DD until highschool level because now that I have been forced to do it for my son, I can see the value in it I never saw before and I believe that it is a wonderful way to educate a child.
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elliemaejune
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Avoidance Reply with quote

carsmom wrote:
I am doing some research for a college project about homeschooling. I was not homeschooled, nor do I plan to homeschool my children. Although I feel like there are a lot of benefits that come with homeschooling, I think a lot of parents choose it to avoid the real issues, rather than dealing with them. For example, when kids are bullied or fall behind in a course subject. Is this option avoidance or assistance? I would appreciate any advice and your opinions. Thanks


Does it really make a difference? If the child's life is improved, either academically or socially, why isn't that sufficient reason to homeschool?

The stories of schools which have failed to help their students improve, including those situations where the parents are actively involved, are legion. The same is true of students whose lives were scarred because of bullying.

The decision to teach one's child at home *is* dealing with problems. It's the ultimate solution.
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keptwoman
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing on the bullying.
You said that it happened to you and it only made you stronger (or words to that affect) I was also bullied and feel much the same, it made me a stronger person.

But not everyone is the same as you and I, it doesn't make everyone stronger, for some people it makes them a victim all their lives, for others it makes them dead. No two instances of bullying are the same, in every combination of two people the interaction will be slightly different and so we can't judge other peoples experiences of bullying by our experiences.
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elliemaejune
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

carsmom wrote:
Thank you all for your opinions.

My stand is this: there are many ways to deal wbith undesirable situations. And avoiding and running are in many ways the same thing. I am aware of what is going on in public schools today and I was bullied in high school. This experience taught me a lot about who I am, I learned my strength and courage. My question now is how you have actually helped your kids by taking them out of school, especially once they are in college or at a job? How will they handle themselves?

Another important question:
How are you planning to make the transition into college?
The school I attend does not accept students who have been homeschooled without a GED. Is this something your kids will have to deal with?

One more thing, what is the d abbreviation in dd, ds?

Thank you!


I can think of a gazillion other ways that people can help their dc learn about who they are, their strengths and their weaknesses, without allowing them to be bullied. Being able to handle oneself in the adult world is a matter of maturity, not of having survived being bullied in school.

And frankly, even if I thought there was merit in allowing my dc to be bullied, it would never occur to me to put my dc in school for that reason alone. There are too many other issues to consider.

Both of my dds (that would be "dear daughters") excelled in college. I believe our unconventional homeschooling helped prepare them. They were mature, and well read, and had had many life experiences not available to children who had spent their years locked into age-segregated classrooms, required to take courses chosen by others who knew them not at all. As adults, they are competent, inquisitive, self-supporting, and willing to take chances to learn and experience new things.

Most colleges and universities happily accept homeschooled students. In fact, many actively recruit homeschoolers, because hsers do so well and are such an asset to the schools. If your school does not, then I would suggest that they make an effort to investigate the reality of homeschoolers.
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