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Why I am against Homeschooling
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sparkie12
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Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Location: Memphis, TN

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Impressed Reply with quote

Hello, Against Homeschooling!! and everyone else who has submitted to this thread. It is a great read!!

Against Homeschooling, I want to start out by saying how impressed I am with your writing and debating skills. I attended and was graduated from a private school. I would put money on it, that very, very few of my classmates would today be as articulate and clear in their writing as you are. It is definitely a gift.

From what I have read here, your main argument is that you were lonely as a result from your years at home. Perhaps not allowed, for whatever reason, to socialize and learn people skills. That is very sad and I can see how that might be possible in an extreme situation.

I am not going to argue with you over this issue but I would like to present my reasons for homeschooling my youngest two children. I would also like to say that most homeschoolers work very hard at making sure their children have the best. I believe that includes the best education, the best safe environment, and the best social skills.

I first looked into homeschooling about a year ago when my then 4 year old son was about to turn 5. This child is extremely intelligent and very social; however, he cannot sit still for long periods of time and he never shuts up. He is always talking and asking questions. If I put him into the school system, they are going to label him ADHD before the first day of school ends. I saw it happen when my 13 year old son entered the school system at age 5. I also saw it happen with my 18 year old son.

Socialization!!! Yeah both of my older boys have a social life alright. It is to the demise of their academic career though. They hate school because no one ever took the time to help them learn. The material was slung at them, probably while they were talking to the person sitting next to them, and it might have even been slung at them a second time before there was a test of some sort. After being in school all day, homework was the last thing they wanted to do. We fought. I cried. They cried. We fought some more. Then it was time for bed and we would repeat the whole scenario again the next day. Summers were spent dreading school in the fall. My 18 year old dropped out of school in the 11th grade. My 13 year old is doing fair, but the hormones are kicking in and I suspect next year is going to be hard for him.

You are probably going to jump in at this point and say it is the parents fault. However, I am not going to buy into that nor am I going to blame the teachers. It is the whole school system approach. It holds back the truly intelligent and loses the ones who cannot keep up. Only the middle of the road kids are going to be o.k. in the long run.

Now the socialization topic is scary to some of us who are just starting to homeschool. But I know a few things for certain. If I homeschool, my child will not be faced with drugs or alcohol, at least not on my premises. They will not be abused or bullied. The will have continuity of care and a stable, quiet environment in which to learn. They will learn the material before them, before they are pushed into something new. They will have friends and family around them very often. We socialize at least 3-4 times a week with other children their age.

It is true as you say that they may not have a huge pool of people from which to choose their friends. But I have always been very selective about with whom my children socialize. Could this be a bad thing? Maybe, in your opinion. However, my job is to get these boys to their 18th birthday and hopefully instill in them morals and a passion for life and learning. If that means keeping a tight reign on them, then so be it.

I want to thank you for your passion. You have given all of us here some valid points upon which to think. I am sorry that you had such a bad experience. I feel your frustration and your resentment through your words. I pray that you will have resolution in this area realizing that you have been given a superior education, as is relevant from your writings. Really you have encouraged me probably more to homeschool than not to just from your obvious English, grammar, and composition skills.

Blessings, Robin
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Against Homeschooling
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must congratulate you, Theodore, on catching that deeply ironic misspelling. I actually laughed when I saw your post, and I will admit that it is quite embarrassing as well as entertaining given the point that I was trying to make. But then again, you must recall that I am a student and not a teacher (albeit of the homeschooled persuasion) as most posters on this forum are, and if I had to make a judgment I would say that the English teachers I have been exposed to in the public school system so far would find it comical that anybody with so weak a grasp of grammar yet alone argumentation skills would be trying to teach English. But this debate aside, that really was quite a slip up on my part.

Sparkie12, flattery aside I am glad that you posted such an intelligent and worthwhile change of pace from the silly bullying issue. Also, I am glad that you have a plan for how your children are going to be socialized. Having such a plan (and followthrough for that plan) would be a step in the right direction for homeschoolers everywhere. You should be warned that the reality is that out of a small pool of peers it is likely that your child will fail to find individuals suited extremely closely in interest to him or her, so even if you succeed in letting your child spend a lot of time with a limited peer group your chances of success are spotty. My parents certainly tried to get me connected with other homeschoolers, but obviously there was seldom any success in that area. Likewise, looking back on it I see that most of them never had any friends either (and in some cases still don't.)

As far as your homeschooled child making friends with children in the school system, I wish you the best but it didn't work for me. My parents signed me up for all sorts of scripted activities in which I should theoretically have been making friends with non-homeschoolers (art classes, soccer team, etc.), but due to their organized nature they just didn't work. It's really hard to keep up with friends, especially at a younger age, if one is not in consistent contact with them.

Moreover, I certainly wouldn't blame you for your children's problems academically in school, but the reality is that there are many factors in education and some kids do fine while others struggle. Whatever specifically has held your kids back, it certainly can't be blamed on the school system as a whole because many, many individuals have gone on to fame and fortune after being prepared by a public education. It seems to me that if they were so consistently bored by middle and high school perhaps they should have been placed in more challenging classes? I rarely see homeschooling families who claim to have not received difficult enough work trying this avenue which certainly kept me satisfied.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: It's all the students' fault! The schools are perfection! Reply with quote

Motivated people succeed regardless where they are. The fact that there are some successful public schoolers (or successful public schools, for that matter...) does not mean that the public school system overall is working to anywhere near its full potential. If it were working to its full potential, why would the same successful public schoolers homeschool or send their children to private schools? How do you explain the huge differences in test scores between homeschoolers and public schoolers, especially in the majority of cases where the parents have no teaching degree (and quite often, not even a college degree)?

If a large number of patients at a certain hospital died, would you blame the patients or the hospital? But wait, maybe the patients should have requested a more vigorous treatment! It's all their fault!

http://www.worcestermag.com/archives/2006/05-04-06/ed1.html
Colleges that have accepted homeschooled students appreciate the maturity and self-direction these students demonstrate. They believe that because homeschooled students have been involved in shaping their own education, they tend to be motivated learners and are comfortable assuming positions of leadership, both in class and in social situations.

http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/alum/2003/12.html
Minster also consults colleges trying to evaluate home-school applicants. "What I hear from colleges is, ‘Send me all the home-school students you can,'" she said. "These are students who know how to study independently."
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momo3boys
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling wrote:

You should be warned that the reality is that out of a small pool of peers it is likely that your child will fail to find individuals suited extremely closely in interest to him or her, so even if you succeed in letting your child spend a lot of time with a limited peer group your chances of success are spotty.



I am sorry that you had a bad experience. My sons, 8, 6, 1, have great friends. We get together at least once a week. There is another family that has three boys and they are almost the same age, and have a lot of the same interests. I know that God gave them to us, and vice versa. It also helps that my husband and I get along very well with the parents. This family is alike enough for us to get along very well, and also different enough for all of us to be stretched in a good way. We can't generalize saying that every homeschool family has this opportunity, or that every public school sytem does either, we can just be glad that we know that what we are doing is right for OUR children.'
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Chrisy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling

I am really sorry you didnt enjoy homeschooling and I thank you for the giving us the chance to see things from the 'child's eye's' you have brought up some valid points which I am sure will give many of us something to think about while we homeschool our children.

As for the bullying , yes I'm afraid it can be very real, especially to a sensitive child, we are going to be homeschooing our Grandson and he has gone through a lot, and again yes there are some things that i did leave out, they are very personal and deeply affected the whole family, not just him,and nothing to do with schooling at all. One tragedy of PS that was very close to me a few years ago was a friend of mine that I went through school with, my daughter happened to be in the same class as her son, he suffered terribly from bullying while at school, he got to the point he couldn't face going anymore but had become so withdrawn that he didn't say anything to his mom about it, he commited suicide at age 15. I realise that his case was extreme, he was a sensitive person and a very loving child. He had tried to deal with everything on his own and unfortunately couldn't. Maybe because if this I am a little overprotective towards my Grandson,but I wont make any appologies for that.

I admit that socialisation could be a problem and agree with the others that we have to make sure that the children have plenty of oportunity to be with their peers,we are waiting to hear from the Boy Scouts and he will be joining the local Baseball team in a few days, possibly the soccer team too, he's not sure if he would like it or not.We also have plenty of opportunities for him to meet other homeschooled children in the area, through our local support group and there will be lots of field trips with them.He will visit the Alamo, the Grand Canyon, we are taking him to see the original London Bridge and many of the old Ghost towns, we have much more planned for this year too, he cant wait to start.

Smile
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hbmom36
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrisy wrote:


I admit that socialisation could be a problem and agree with the others that we have to make sure that the children have plenty of oportunity to be with their peers,we are waiting to hear from the Boy Scouts and he will be joining the local Baseball team in a few days, possibly the soccer team too, he's not sure if he would like it or not.We also have plenty of opportunities for him to meet other homeschooled children in the area, through our local support group and there will be lots of field trips with them.He will visit the Alamo, the Grand Canyon, we are taking him to see the original London Bridge and many of the old Ghost towns, we have much more planned for this year too, he cant wait to start.

Smile


Remember, the best opportuinities for "socialization" are unplanned, unstructured activities. My two kids are in dance and swim classes, where they meet and get to know other kids, but I believe that the best way to get a child "socialized" is to go to the park or some other place where there are other kids, and let them play without an adult directing it.
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momo3boys
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: socialization???? Reply with quote

Does anyone else find this one word ironic. What I mean is that everyone thinks of socialization as having our children interacting with children of thier own age right. The thing that we seem to forget is that children are children for a short period of time while we remain adults for the majority of our lives. With that said though, how many of us now interact with peers of our own age. I know that I don't. I am usually in a crowd for the most part where I have people that are 10, 15, and 20 years older. That is the socialization that my children will have as well as with children of their own age. How we teach them "socialization" is by bringing them where every we go and present the manners in which they should act with people of ALL ages.
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kissedangel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Why I am against Homeschooling Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling wrote:
Hi.

I was homeschooled up to halfway through tenth grade. Having never been to school, I had no idea what to expect - although I was quite sure by that point that I would enjoy it more than I had enjoyed homeschooling. Why? Because I was lonely. I was absolutely starved for friendship. I don't live out in the boondocks like the stereotypical recluse homeschooler; I simply had no effective way of connecting. Without consistent exposure to peers, I lacked effective social skills. I was a sad, shy person.

I wouldn't recommend homeschooling for any children aged higher than primary school, unless as a parent you feel that you can acclimate them to other children their own age on a regular basis. Those bold letters have a lot of feeling behind them. Many times have I heard proud homeschooling parents brag of their children's busy social lives - conveniently not mentioning that these social opportunities occur infrequently, only in structured circumstances, or with children of widely disparate ages. I'm not saying that children of different ages cannot be mixed. I'm saying that healthy children must be exposed to a peer group, and must have friends - real friends with whom they actually want to associate, not kids their parents have picked out for them to be friends with just because they also happen to be homeschooled.

I pick no fights with homeschooling over its academic prowess. It is obviously usually superior to the public school system. I am speaking out against homeschooling because of its utter social inadequacies. Out of the relatively large group of homeschoolers with whom I am acquainted, I do not know a single one who I would classify as well-balanced or well-socialized. Of course, the parents of these poor kids would have you believe otherwise - but you need only sit in on their homeschool meetings to hear the tales of their unfortunate children being socially rejected when they try to mix with kids from the mainstream education system.

Kids need friends. Before you post irate responses to this thread, please think about your children. Regardless of what they tell you, are they happy? Do they have real friends? Think back to your own childhood. Would you have been happy with the degree of exposure to peers that your children have? You might even ask them if they feel able to join a mainstream activity (sports, after-school clubs) and get along with other kids. You might be surprised.

-A happy ex-homeschoooler

A lady I know home taught until her child was 17 then the girl when straight into higher education. The girl did not miss out because she mixed with her peers in her community, like my child. The parent is now laughing because her child has a good job and is paid to study further. The employer said that compared to all the school leavers he had interviewed that the girl was so stable and grounded that he wished that more kids were home educated. The girl also has a good circle of friends.
I made sure my child went to a church lead actvity group with a mix of children of different ages, then dance once a week and girls guides which organised trips and a whole heap of actvities. Her social skills and confidence grew because she was mixing with a variety of children and adults. When she went back to school she was classified as one of the most sociable and confident children in her school who mixes with children of all ages. Fitting in with the Jones is what normally happens at an early age. At around 10 a child starts to make real friends without the parent/s doing for them. This is what is called independence. Some school children do not make real friends until they go to college. This is life. Done the right way Homeschooling is the best thing that can happen to a child. For the first time it allowed my child to meet the children in her community. By the time she went to back to school she knew alot of the kids because of the activities she attended whilst being home taught and her friendships were even stronger because her peers had mixed with her outside school without me, she even played out on the street with her peers and would not worry that if she did not conform they would get her at school, there was no peer pressure. The norm would have been the school run and 1 acitivity or an ocassionally birthday party.
Now, when I walk with my child I am amazed at all the children she knows and calls her friends. This would not have occured left to the playground and half hour playtimes. Homeschooling is not easy, but your own experience shows that for the length of time you were taught at home that your parents got it wrong because they were not thinking about what you wanted, but themselves. They should have remembered that you are a human being with needs too. Very Happy
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Lauria
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Socialization Reply with quote

I was one of the kids (over 10 years ago) who went to public school and finally left it for homeschooling after *begging* my mother to homeschool me.

Why?

1st grade -- have scar now above left eye from getting beat up at the bus stop.

4th grade -- arm broken on the playground by a child pushing me into a steel double slide on the playground.

5th grade -- scar on chin from getting beat up.

7th grade -- a girl jabbed a sewing needle from Home Economics into the back of my neck (she was sitting behind me in Honors Biology).

Plus the many, many, many pairs of glasses that were broken on the playground or by bullies...

Let's put it like this -- in my case, socialization was to my detriment, at least the socialization I got in public school.

So what did I do while homeschooled from 8th grade on?

First, this was in the days of the "BBS", before the Internet really became available (except through Prodigy and Compuserve). There were several local BBSes in my calling area that I was able to call for free. I got to interact with both adults and other teenagers through there. I like to think that the debates with adults helped to strengthen my prose.

By the time I was in 9th grade every Friday night I went with friends I had met online to a gathering at a comic book store in town. It was a good place to be able to go and "hang out" without worries about drugs or alcohol, and most of the kids there were public school kids.

I do have to say that I usually "hung out" with older kids. Then again, even when I was in public school I usually chose to socialize with children at least two years older than I was.

Later on in high school I got to particpate in speech competitions and theatre productions with a local high school that approved of homeschoolers.

------

Against Homeschooling:

I'm really happy for you that you've found what works for you. In my case, I begged to be homeschooled. It was what I wanted, and I'd already experienced public school, so I knew what I was rejecting at least.

As for being well-balanced, I don't think I qualified for that when I was public-schooled. *grin*

Every child is different. I certainly believe that if a child wants to go to public school that a parent should support their decision wholeheartedly. Part of the reason that so many homeschool is that not every child or teen falls into the same "cookie-cutter" pattern. Homeschooling is *not* for everyone, as you have expressed very clearly.

Good luck!

-----

Edited to add -- forgot about the concussion in fourth grade, too. (That could explain a few things ... *grin*) That was another incident, before the arm, of getting pushed/thrown into playground equipment.
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kissedangel
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Socialization Reply with quote

Lauria wrote:
Every child is different. I certainly believe that if a child wants to go to public school that a parent should support their decision wholeheartedly. Part of the reason that so many homeschool is that not every child or teen falls into the same "cookie-cutter" pattern. Homeschooling is *not* for everyone, as you have expressed very clearly.


Thank you very much for the awareness you have brought to this discussion. Yes, I have “expressed very clearly” that I am very much for home schooling if the parent/s intentions are for the good of the child/ren. I also accept, ' if a child has experienced public schooling at some stage this child is going to want to go back to Public Schooling'. This does not reflect badly on the parent/s, it just means the job has been done and the child is confident enough to take on the world.
How many home schooled children shy away from attaining knowledge? If the child did not receive any form of Public Schooling the likely hood is the child will want to go into Public Schooling is low. If the child did receive a good quality education whilst studying at home then, the child may want to explore Public Schooling because all their friends or other peers go to school? The Issues and debates surrounding Public schooling Vs home schooling are vast.
So, I do that believe that every child has a right to experience Home schooling, the benefits are tremendous. We are only human.
When my child mentioned going back to Public schooling, I did agree. I was not so keen to place my child in just any school. When I was reminded about my time at Primary School I became more disappointed to the fact, my Child could miss out on experiencing a brilliant time, just like I had. From from infancy to third grade Public Schooling was hard for me. We knew that our child was ready to go back into Public Schooling because, we had all taken the time out to empower ourselves. Visiting over 6 schools was great. Making a choice was not. As a parent who is a former home tutor I can safely say “ taking the time out to go through the frustration Neutral and rewards of your child's education gives the child the true meaning of life.
The system unfortunately does fail our children. Many education professionals will inform you that home schooled pupils are a pleasure to teach. [Pupils and exclusion is a separate issue, I refuse to get into this debate because I have no understanding or experience pertaining to this subject matter]. Indeed, the best person to set the foundations for education and learning for a child, is the parent. Your child will love you forever for taking the time out to become their one-to-one teacher, just for the them.
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mkpierce95
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: homeschooling vs. public school Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling,

I am so sorry to hear that you had such a tough experience being homeschooled! I was wondering, though, did you ever express your misery to your parents when you were at home? I guess maybe that is ultimately what lead you to be placed in public school.

The reason I ask is because I think we all want our children to be happy. Of course, sometimes as parents we know that what our children THINK will make them happy is not the best thing for them; however, I know that at least for my husband and me, we strive to be open-minded and to take our children's interests and desires to heart.

I homeschool my 4 and am often asked, "How long do you plan to homeschool?" What a tough question and really kind of an odd one if you think about it. Sure I've thought already about the upcoming school year, but in reality we take homeschooling day by day. If it ceases to be a positive experience for my children and me, we will certainly look at other alternatives, including public school. I would hate to be 20 years down the road looking back at a home education experience laced with bad memories! I guess all of this is simply to say that I hope that we as parents are tuned in enough to our children to evaluate and re-evaluate our methods and be willing to look at other options if our current methods are failing (not that ps would necessarily be that other option!).

Anyway, this has been a great discussion, and I know we all appreciate your boldness is speaking up for what you believe, especially given the fact that you--speaking up on a homeschool forum--are potentially caught in a lion's den! Very Happy Like one other poster said, you are a very articulate person--I think perhaps the mix of homeschooling and public schooling was a good one for you! Cool
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kissedangel
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: homeschooling vs. public school Reply with quote

mkpierce95 wrote:
Against Homeschooling,

Anyway, this has been a great discussion, and I know we all appreciate your boldness is speaking up for what you believe, especially given the fact that you--speaking up on a homeschool forum--are potentially caught in a lion's den! Very Happy Like one other poster said, you are a very articulate person--I think perhaps the mix of homeschooling and public schooling was a good one for you! Cool


Very Happy Well said !!!!
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AnnetteR
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Why I am against Homeschooling Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling wrote:
Hi.

I was homeschooled up to halfway through tenth grade. Having never been to school, I had no idea what to expect - although I was quite sure by that point that I would enjoy it more than I had enjoyed homeschooling. Why? Because I was lonely. I was absolutely starved for friendship. I don't live out in the boondocks like the stereotypical recluse homeschooler; I simply had no effective way of connecting. Without consistent exposure to peers, I lacked effective social skills. I was a sad, shy person.

I'm saying that healthy children must be exposed to a peer group, and must have friends - real friends with whom they actually want to associate, not kids their parents have picked out for them to be friends with just because they also happen to be homeschooled.

I do not know a single one who I would classify as well-balanced or well-socialized. Of course, the parents of these poor kids would have you believe otherwise - but you need only sit in on their homeschool meetings to hear the tales of their unfortunate children being socially rejected when they try to mix with kids from the mainstream education system.

Kids need friends.


I went to public schools and oddly enough I was lonely and starved for friendship. I seemed to completely lack the social skills necessary to relate to my peers and found myself constantly being ignored.

I have never had real friends with which to associate. This is not an issue of how or where you are educated but how you are parented.

Public schools don't magically produce well adjusted youth. The school my daughter went to was over-flowing with children that were anything but well adjusted.

My son is three and all I hear from everyone is that he'll never learn how to socialize if he doesn't go to public school. I find that bizarre. He's very out-going and social. He'll walk right up to other children on the playground and introduce himself and try to get them to play with him. He can only shrug as the other children stare at him blankly or run away. Is he being rejected because I plan to homeschool him? How would the children on the playground know this? If my son is flawed for attempting to play with other children, for introducing himself? No. This is the growing trend. We leave it to the schools to teach socializations skills and schools don't do that. If you are being rejected it's because parents don't care to teach their children any better.

Children don't need public school to be accepted or to have good social skills. What they need are parents that are willing to ensure that they have these skills.
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hbmom36
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Why I am against Homeschooling Reply with quote

Bravo, Annette!! I had the same experiences as you in public school. My kids are 7 and 3; they have never been away from me except for a few hours a week in the gym daycare. They are the most social kids you have ever seen, and they are equally comfortable with adults and kids.
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Lorren
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to public schools and at the time, I really didn't know that it was bad. I thought I went to a great school... I suppose that academically it was okay. Not great, because I was bored through several classes in several grades, but it was okay. Or so I thought.

Thinking back on my school years, I realize that it wasn't really a great thing at all.

When I was in kindergarten people called me retarded because I had an overbite. Nevermind that I was actually very intelligent, but just because I looked different I was teased.

For most of middle school and high school I felt like a loser and a reject because I didn't have a boyfriend. I was consistently questioning myself... was I not pretty enough? Did I have a horrible personality? What was wrong with me? I really didn't get it. I spent several years of my life with a fake smile plastered to my face trying to hide my internal pain, all the while wishing that somehow I could die and end it all. There were hours during the day that I might not feel that way, but inevitably I would go back to feeling the same old depression.

I did have a few very good friends, who I still keep in touch with occasionally today.

However, out in the real world, life is nothing like public school. I moved over 1000 miles away from my old school and old life. People don't reject you because of what music you listen to. You can pick the people that you choose to associate with, and make friends with common interests. You don't have to spend time with people that torment you... there are laws against things like that.

Not everybody can be prom queen, or student body president, or captain of the football team. For everybody that reaps those benefits, there are many people that have few friends and don't excel socially in the public school system.

I have a beautiful 4 year old daughter that has many friends. She is not shy when meeting new people of any age... she gets along well with 2 year olds, 4 year olds, teenagers, and senior citizens (they love her to pieces). I made my decision to homeschool years before she was born, but whenever I read about public school horror stories, it just makes me more glad that she will never go there. Reading this thread, I just can't help but looking at my daughter and being thankful that she will never have her friendliness and social ease beaten out of her by the public school system. Hopefully she will keep the level of social adeptness that she has now.

While for the most part I suppose that I may have recovered from public school, it took at least 10 years to get where I am today. I'm still shy in many situations and feel slightly inadequate, I don't think I would be quite this way if I hadn't been in public school.
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