My daughter tried hs'ing her 7 & 9 yr old last year. It didn't go too well. Now she's planning on sending them back to public school so they won't fall further behind. The problem is that,besides being hard to handle,they don't seem to interested in ANYthing. They did capture caterpillars,put them in jars and watch them turn into moths. Other than that,they don't want to read,write,draw,discuss,research, or do anything that remotely resembles learning anything. Ask them what they're interested in and they might name dinosaurs,space,etc. but then they don't want to do anything further to LEARN anything about them. How do you deal with kids who just want to play,fight with each other, and watch tv?? No,she doesn't allow them to watch tv all day,but the fighting,arguing,etc. is very hard on her as she suffers from clinical depression and is mildly bipolar. BUT,public school just puts a different set of stresses in place.
Any suggestions would be SOOOOOO appreciated!!!!!!!!!!
home/unschooling uninterested kids
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home/unschooling uninterested kids
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frogguruami
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AM, homeschooling mom to Drake and Kyllian
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Calla_Dragon
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Re: home/unschooling uninterested kids
There's at least one great book on getting started that says to take 1 month off for each year the child has been in public school. Maybe she could let them start this year at home by spending Sept or even Oct just going to the library weekly, doing a few chores, and then getting some physical exercise daily. Then in Nov she could start with the younger one doing more academics, and add in the older one in Dec or Jan.
Pub Sch tends to deaden kids' natural sense of interest in things. If they have a nice long break, their interest may be able to be reawakened.
IMHO, fighting with siblings is an emergency that needs to be addressed immediately. Academics can wait until that has been stopped.
Every single jab or poke, every eye roll and every snide remark or name-calling incident or even disagreement needs to be dealt with as soon as it happens.
Does that child need some one-on-one time with mom? How about exercise or a drink? Do they know that there are house rules against fighting? Then every single time, they need to be asked, "Will you please not do that?" And maybe required to apologize and state, "I shouldn't have yelled at you. I won't yell at you any more." Or whatever.
HTH,
Ramona
Pub Sch tends to deaden kids' natural sense of interest in things. If they have a nice long break, their interest may be able to be reawakened.
IMHO, fighting with siblings is an emergency that needs to be addressed immediately. Academics can wait until that has been stopped.
Every single jab or poke, every eye roll and every snide remark or name-calling incident or even disagreement needs to be dealt with as soon as it happens.
Does that child need some one-on-one time with mom? How about exercise or a drink? Do they know that there are house rules against fighting? Then every single time, they need to be asked, "Will you please not do that?" And maybe required to apologize and state, "I shouldn't have yelled at you. I won't yell at you any more." Or whatever.
HTH,
Ramona
more on hs'ing undisc. kids
The eternal God is thy refuge,and underneath are the everlasting arms.
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Calla_Dragon
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I have an ADHD/ODD child myself so I feel her pain and I know how easy it is for an ADHD child to get out of control and take siblings with - it happened in my house. I also know that the feel good, warm and fuzzy parenting techniques that get rammed down our throats don't work on ADHD kids either.
The first thing I did with my son is I got him evaluated by a doctor and got him on supplements to address the issues going on in his body that were causing the problems with ADHD. Notice I didn't say I medicated him because I didn't. Medication never fixes the underlying problems and it often doesn't address the problems at hand. Sometimes it makes issues worse. My son had an imbalance in neurotransmitters causing erratic behavior, hyperactivity and severe impulse control. Once he got on a supplement and vitamin program to balance out his brain chemistry, we saw a ton of improvement. The doctor who pulled this off was a chiropractor/nutritionist. Your daughter may try searching for an alternative doctor to see if he/she can recommend help for your child that actually addresses the underlying metabolic issues of ADHD rather than simply medicating (no offense to medicating parents out there, but I feel medication is simply a band-aid and while it may help temporarily, it does nothing to address the actual whys of why a child is experiencing problems so it cannot do anything to fix it. I'm not a fan of our current medical philosophy which treats people symptomatically and keeps them on medications for life while nothing is done to address the root causes of health issues).
Another thing I did was implement a very structured day. Here is what we're going to do and when, so my son knew what to expect. If he didn't want to follow the schedule, he got a time out. When he was done with his time out, he could try again, if he still didn't want to follow the schedule, he went back into his time out. Yes, it takes many, many, many, many, many times before this gets into their heads, but you have to be firm and consistent with ADHD kids - it takes a lot of effort and it's very, very hard, both emotionally and physically. I've counted an average of 2-3 weeks of several times daily to get my son to change a particular behavior and unfortunately, once one is resolved, another is soon to take its place. These are not easy kids to parent and I do understand why parents turn to medication because these kids are so hard to handle, but it CAN be done. My son has spent a LOT of time in his room or has had other consequences doled out - many times for things he knows are wrong and still does anyway for whatever reason. It does get easier with time, they eventually get more under control and more discliplined My son is an awesome kid, as are most kids with ADHD, but he struggles with a few behaviors - mostly revolving around impulse control which is textbook of ADHD kids. Impulse control is not something that can be medicated into a child, they have to learn self-control and it takes time and patience.
I also implemented a sticker reward chart. EVERY child has something they care about and are willing to work for..EVERY child. Mom's job is to find it and get a sticker reward chart going. In our house, my son had to keep his room clean every day for 20 days to get a reward that he chose. We wrote the reward on his sticker chart and hung it on a bulletin board in his room. Each night, we looked around his room and if it was clean, he got to put a sticker on his chart. Now we're onto subsequent sticker charts and the current one is for a bigger bike. He needs to keep not only his room clean, but pick up his stuff from the entire upstairs in order to get a sticker. Each sticker chart begins and sets a habit so previous tasks are included in responsibilities needed to gain stickers on future charts, if that makes sense.
I also offer my son chores to do around the house that aren't part of what he needs to do to get stickers and I offer him a quarter for each job done.
This has helped considerably in his willingness to help out around the house without being asked, bribed or paid, but we had to start out the way we did in order to get there. Not that all families would have to do the same, but that's what we did.
One other thing we did with my son was for all of us to sit down and draw up a contract about actions and consequences for those actions. For example, one thing he struggles with is remembering to tell us when he's going to a friend's house. He will literally just vanish out of the driveway without asking if he can go or even telling us where he's going. He knows it's wrong and still does it, so we put it in the contract. He needs to ask to go over to a friends house or he cannot play outside and/or with his friends for the rest of the day. Hitting one of the dogs will get him poop patrol out in the yard (which he really thinks is terrible). He helped think of consequences of certain actions and he agreed to the contract so when he complains and tries to worm his way out of a consequence, I point to his signature and say "look, you agreed to this".
I have literally read and tried the techniques of every parenting book out there, including books meant for parenting ADHD kids and nothing worked. This is the only thing that worked for my son who is not only ADHD, but stubborn, strong-willed, very energetic and likes to run the show.
I would tell their mom to take heart. It does take some time for kids to get out of control so it will take time to get them back under control. It definately won't happen overnight. If they're used to running roughshod over Mom and she all of a sudden tries to stand up and make them obey, they're not going to just lay down and obey. They're going to put up a fight. I find that making the consequences unpleasant enough to the point where they don't want to risk any more time lost is enough to get them to come around, but it takes time and consistency. What kid won't eventually figure out that just doing what Mom asks and moving on to what you want to do is MUCH more fun than going through the power struggle with mom every day. My son used to do this to me a lot. If he didn't do what I asked, he got a consequence, after the consequence, we tried it again, if he still refused, back to the consequence and after that we tried again. Over and over again in a cycle. I do remember spending entire days like that and he would be upset at the end of the day because he didn't get to do anything fun until I explained to him that if he would have spent the 5 minutes it took to clean up his mess he would have been able to do all kinds of fun stuff that day. Instead, he chose to fight me and he wasted his entire day over a chore that would have taken him 5 minutes. I believe one of the books I read called kids "aggressive researchers", which means that they will test the waters over and over and push the limits over and over to see where the line is. It sounds to me like though they've been pushing and testing, they still have not found the line or don't believe that Mom is serious. Mom has to be serious, consistent and willing to dole out consequences for actions regardless of how loud they scream, cry, tantrum, say they hate you, etc. Kids will try it all to get their way seeing if they can push the line further and further back.
I don't know how old her kids are, but one of the things I did with my son (who is 6 btw) was personally enforce consequences. If he was in a time out in bed, I sat out in the hallway and made sure he stayed in his bed for the allotted time. Getting out of bed meant that he got another time out on top of it (my time outs are 5 min, so getting out of bed meant he got another 5 min). If he was to clean up a mess, I stood there and watched over him as he cleaned giving directions if necessary. It isn't as easy as "go clean your room" and expecting that the child will do that. These kids aren't like that - they need direction, sometimes down to the step by step. The main thing is that they know that they WILL do <x> before anything else gets done and that Mom will personally see to it that it's done. If you don't see to it that it's done, you can't be exasperated when you walk in and find your kids missing and the chore undone.
The first thing I did with my son is I got him evaluated by a doctor and got him on supplements to address the issues going on in his body that were causing the problems with ADHD. Notice I didn't say I medicated him because I didn't. Medication never fixes the underlying problems and it often doesn't address the problems at hand. Sometimes it makes issues worse. My son had an imbalance in neurotransmitters causing erratic behavior, hyperactivity and severe impulse control. Once he got on a supplement and vitamin program to balance out his brain chemistry, we saw a ton of improvement. The doctor who pulled this off was a chiropractor/nutritionist. Your daughter may try searching for an alternative doctor to see if he/she can recommend help for your child that actually addresses the underlying metabolic issues of ADHD rather than simply medicating (no offense to medicating parents out there, but I feel medication is simply a band-aid and while it may help temporarily, it does nothing to address the actual whys of why a child is experiencing problems so it cannot do anything to fix it. I'm not a fan of our current medical philosophy which treats people symptomatically and keeps them on medications for life while nothing is done to address the root causes of health issues).
Another thing I did was implement a very structured day. Here is what we're going to do and when, so my son knew what to expect. If he didn't want to follow the schedule, he got a time out. When he was done with his time out, he could try again, if he still didn't want to follow the schedule, he went back into his time out. Yes, it takes many, many, many, many, many times before this gets into their heads, but you have to be firm and consistent with ADHD kids - it takes a lot of effort and it's very, very hard, both emotionally and physically. I've counted an average of 2-3 weeks of several times daily to get my son to change a particular behavior and unfortunately, once one is resolved, another is soon to take its place. These are not easy kids to parent and I do understand why parents turn to medication because these kids are so hard to handle, but it CAN be done. My son has spent a LOT of time in his room or has had other consequences doled out - many times for things he knows are wrong and still does anyway for whatever reason. It does get easier with time, they eventually get more under control and more discliplined My son is an awesome kid, as are most kids with ADHD, but he struggles with a few behaviors - mostly revolving around impulse control which is textbook of ADHD kids. Impulse control is not something that can be medicated into a child, they have to learn self-control and it takes time and patience.
I also implemented a sticker reward chart. EVERY child has something they care about and are willing to work for..EVERY child. Mom's job is to find it and get a sticker reward chart going. In our house, my son had to keep his room clean every day for 20 days to get a reward that he chose. We wrote the reward on his sticker chart and hung it on a bulletin board in his room. Each night, we looked around his room and if it was clean, he got to put a sticker on his chart. Now we're onto subsequent sticker charts and the current one is for a bigger bike. He needs to keep not only his room clean, but pick up his stuff from the entire upstairs in order to get a sticker. Each sticker chart begins and sets a habit so previous tasks are included in responsibilities needed to gain stickers on future charts, if that makes sense.
I also offer my son chores to do around the house that aren't part of what he needs to do to get stickers and I offer him a quarter for each job done.
This has helped considerably in his willingness to help out around the house without being asked, bribed or paid, but we had to start out the way we did in order to get there. Not that all families would have to do the same, but that's what we did.
One other thing we did with my son was for all of us to sit down and draw up a contract about actions and consequences for those actions. For example, one thing he struggles with is remembering to tell us when he's going to a friend's house. He will literally just vanish out of the driveway without asking if he can go or even telling us where he's going. He knows it's wrong and still does it, so we put it in the contract. He needs to ask to go over to a friends house or he cannot play outside and/or with his friends for the rest of the day. Hitting one of the dogs will get him poop patrol out in the yard (which he really thinks is terrible). He helped think of consequences of certain actions and he agreed to the contract so when he complains and tries to worm his way out of a consequence, I point to his signature and say "look, you agreed to this".
I have literally read and tried the techniques of every parenting book out there, including books meant for parenting ADHD kids and nothing worked. This is the only thing that worked for my son who is not only ADHD, but stubborn, strong-willed, very energetic and likes to run the show.
I would tell their mom to take heart. It does take some time for kids to get out of control so it will take time to get them back under control. It definately won't happen overnight. If they're used to running roughshod over Mom and she all of a sudden tries to stand up and make them obey, they're not going to just lay down and obey. They're going to put up a fight. I find that making the consequences unpleasant enough to the point where they don't want to risk any more time lost is enough to get them to come around, but it takes time and consistency. What kid won't eventually figure out that just doing what Mom asks and moving on to what you want to do is MUCH more fun than going through the power struggle with mom every day. My son used to do this to me a lot. If he didn't do what I asked, he got a consequence, after the consequence, we tried it again, if he still refused, back to the consequence and after that we tried again. Over and over again in a cycle. I do remember spending entire days like that and he would be upset at the end of the day because he didn't get to do anything fun until I explained to him that if he would have spent the 5 minutes it took to clean up his mess he would have been able to do all kinds of fun stuff that day. Instead, he chose to fight me and he wasted his entire day over a chore that would have taken him 5 minutes. I believe one of the books I read called kids "aggressive researchers", which means that they will test the waters over and over and push the limits over and over to see where the line is. It sounds to me like though they've been pushing and testing, they still have not found the line or don't believe that Mom is serious. Mom has to be serious, consistent and willing to dole out consequences for actions regardless of how loud they scream, cry, tantrum, say they hate you, etc. Kids will try it all to get their way seeing if they can push the line further and further back.
I don't know how old her kids are, but one of the things I did with my son (who is 6 btw) was personally enforce consequences. If he was in a time out in bed, I sat out in the hallway and made sure he stayed in his bed for the allotted time. Getting out of bed meant that he got another time out on top of it (my time outs are 5 min, so getting out of bed meant he got another 5 min). If he was to clean up a mess, I stood there and watched over him as he cleaned giving directions if necessary. It isn't as easy as "go clean your room" and expecting that the child will do that. These kids aren't like that - they need direction, sometimes down to the step by step. The main thing is that they know that they WILL do <x> before anything else gets done and that Mom will personally see to it that it's done. If you don't see to it that it's done, you can't be exasperated when you walk in and find your kids missing and the chore undone.
To be idle is a short road to death and to be diligent is a way of life; foolish people are idle, wise people are diligent.
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Calla_Dragon
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Calla_Dragon
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