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How easy is it to get back into Public School after HS?
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Redhead
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 30
Location: DFW, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling wrote:
You're all stonewalling. I understand that you're all proud, as parents, and you don't want to take the hit of admitting that maybe some criticisms - important criticisms - of homeschooling are justified. However, it is simply not fair to your children to be an apologist for their lack of social opportunities.

I'm sorry, but if you think kids shouldn't date in high school (or, heaven forbid, shouldn't attend rock concerts) you are in a very small, very peculiar minority. Your anecdotal experiences, however tragic, should be told to your children as warnings regarding potentially dangerous activities and not as condemnations of those activities.


I'm sorry, but I absolutely have to laugh at the grotesque degree of irony in your statements. Everyone here is stonewalling?! The parents here are the ones who can't take criticism of their reasoning?! Perhaps "pot" you should take a long look in the mirror before you call us "kettles" black.

You accuse everyone here of using anecdotal experiences as their support, and yet you have yet to have used anything but that to try to support your own position. And, at that, you have only your own personal experiences to fall back on. Frankly, just because you and your parents made little to no effort to socialize doesn't mean everyone else who homeschools is as backward as you and your family appear to be.

I saw no one say that teenagers shouldn't be allowed to date nor that they shouldn't be allowed to go to concerts. I might take this moment, however, to point out that just because YOU think that's what teenagers should be doing doesn't mean they should. I might also take this moment to point out that dating and concerts have little to nothing to do with public schooling versus private schooling versus homeschooling. I had one boyfriend in high school (public high school), and I met him through my church youth group. Frankly, I don't see how I would have met anyone to date in high school. It's not like I could talk to anyone during class; guys weren't in pep squad; and lunch generally divided along gender lines--- girls ate with girls, guys with guys.

Look, what you need to learn in debate is that just because you didn't like it or have a good experience doesn't mean that's a solid argument why no one should like it let alone have a good experience themselves. It's evident you made little to no effort at socializing while you were homeschooled. Blame your parents or, better yet, yourself for that. Blaming homeschooling itself is ludicrous, and you've provided no evidence whatsoever to support the idea that homeschooling fails to provide socialization.

In short, your 'argument' is completely unsound. Let me turn your last statement back on yourself: YOUR anecdotal experience with homeschooling, however tragic, should be told to homeschooling parents as warnings regarding potentially isolating activities and not as condemnations of those activities.

Frankly, until you can come up with something better than "I had a bad homeschooling experience so all homeschooling kids are having a bad homeschooling experience," you might just want to drop this debate. And since I minored in logic, philosophy, and the classics, I think I know a poor argument when I see one.
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"Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil." C.S. Lewis
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Against Homeschooling
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Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe me, redhead - since I started posting here I've worried quite thoroughly about the lack of data to support my position. I assure you that I have searched quite thoroughly for data that reflects socialization (I hate that word and kick myself every time I use it) or at least satisfaction, or happiness, or something to that effect among the homeschooled population. All I've found are a handful of studies, poorly documented, and generally themselves carried out by homeschooling advocates. These colorful charts always brag about how many things homeschoolers are doing outside the home, but realistically the profile of activities precisely matches those of the lonely, self-conscious kids that I've talked with.

Also, I hasten to add that on the topic of anecdotes I am speaking not only for myself but for nearly every homeschooler with whom I have ever spoken regarding this issue, in contrast to the bulk of parents on this discussion forum who eagerly relate all the terrible things that happened to them personally in public school. The bulk quantities of homeschooling literature that I have read all reflect a very similar parental attitude which I feel is something akin to a coverup of the real situation of the affected children. I could be wrong, and in any argument, especially with so admittedly flimsy a platform as I am on, it would be foolish for me to assert otherwise. However, I believe strongly given what I have seen of the homeschooling community that I and the very few others in my position are correct and will eventually be vindicated.

I'm no public school advocate. It's dumbed down, childish, and often a complete waste of time. But even as bad as it is, I argue that it is superior to homeschooling. Moreover, public school can be made to work by choosing hard classes and going outside the bounds of assignments, just as homeschooling can, and without the risk of having a "teacher" who posts on online forums using entirely capital letters. The difference between public school and education at home, I strongly believe, is that in public school it is relatively easy to be relatively well adjusted while homeschoolers find it very difficult to be even slightly well adjusted. It doesn't help that many homeschooling families belong to extremely dogmatic religious groups which place further restrictions upon individuals' thought processes and schedules.

So, if you have solid statistical data regarding "socialization," I would be very interested. I see my current purpose in this place as simply to warn parents as best as I am able given my resources as to just what a travesty this experience can be. And really, don't think that that I am necessarily condemning home education no matter what. I'm sure that given the proper community, parents, geographical situation and general attitude things could work out perfectly. I've just never seen that happen.
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Redhead
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Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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Location: DFW, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, however, your entire basis for argument is purely anecdotal. You say that every homeschooler you've ever talked to has shared the fact that they're miserable and ill-socialized. Do you have any appreciation, however, for the fact that those percentages have to be ridiculously small?

It's fine to come here and ask parents to make every effort to ensure their children are exposed to other children in varied settings and situations so that they will not find themselves ill-prepared to deal in the real world. I agree that I've seen homeschool families who are entirely too shut off from their surroundings, and I have little doubt their kids will suffer because of it.

However, it's entirely different to come here and, with absolutely no evidence, make generalizations that public schooling better prepares children for 'the real world' than homeschooling. All schools are not the same; all families are not the same; all kids are not the same. Homeschooling didn't work for you, and it probably hasn't worked for others. Nevertheless, as many parents here have tried over and over to point out to you, it HAS worked for plenty of other children.

I've seen parents assert over and over that their children have done well and have numerous friends and close relationships. Without knowing any of them, though, you have dismissed them out of hand as making it up, creating a fantasy that isn't the dismal reality their children are really experiencing. And that is just plain poor thinking on your part.

Why don't you just leave it at this: homeschooling didn't work for you. You're ill-socialized as a result and have talked to other kids who have found themselves in the same boat. Parents who homeschool should take serious and long looks at how they are introducing their kids to the world around them and make sure they aren't over-sheltering their children from realities they'll have to face sooner or later.

On the flip side, you need to accept that it is every parent's responsibility to decide what is right for their child and what isn't. Some parents let their 13 year old daughters wear shirts that say 'sexy' on it; this parent won't be letting her daughter wear one of those as long as this parent is paying for anything---food, clothes, or tuition. Some parents let their kids go to underage drinking parties because it's cool and they don't want to look like a "peculiar minority" by not doing so; this parent definitely won't. None of those decisions would change whether my kids were homeschooled, private schooled, or public schooled.

And that's my ultimate point. You're not talking about homeschooling--- you're talking about parenting. You need to learn that distinction. Dating and concerts and friends are all going to come back to a parenting style, not a schooling choice.
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"Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil." C.S. Lewis
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momo3boys
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great point Redhead, Parenting styles and Homeschooling are very different!
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WishboneDawn
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Against Homeschooling wrote:

So, if you have solid statistical data regarding "socialization," I would be very interested.


Here's a nice post with quite a few studies. The 'homeschooling advocate' studies are addressed (and sort of dismissed) under the NHERI link.

Quote:
I see my current purpose in this place as simply to warn parents as best as I am able given my resources as to just what a travesty this experience can be.


That's downright obnoxious. Like a vegetarian visiting a BBQ to dissuade people from eating the steaks or a homeschooler visiting a teachers forum to dissuade them from teaching.

It's some kind of 'Nanny' syndrome?

Quote:
And really, don't think that that I am necessarily condemning home education no matter what. I'm sure that given the proper community, parents, geographical situation and general attitude things could work out perfectly. I've just never seen that happen.


*shrug* It's called selection bias and your post was a good example of it. You 'strongly believe' in your position and so shape what you see to fit that view. I have no doubt about what you see in homeschooled children or 'bulk quantities' of homeschooling literature. I have no confidence that what you see reflects what others would see or what the reality is however.
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momofmy3kids
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Joined: 10 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And that's my ultimate point. You're not talking about homeschooling--- you're talking about parenting. You need to learn that distinction. Dating and concerts and friends are all going to come back to a parenting style, not a schooling choice.



CORRECT. AHS is not able to truly argue HS vs PS because AHS is NOT an adult. Therefore, they do not have adult experiences to balance out their youth experiences. Life isn't about DATING and ROCK CONCERTS. Life is about functioning in a society with compassion, responsibility and integrity.

My children will have the option to go to PS as high schoolers. BUT they will have to give me a better argument than they can't dance, can't attend rock concerts, can't date unchaperoned, can't smoke, can't drink, can't do drugs, etc. THOSE THINGS WON'T CHANGE whether they are HS or PS.

Your other arguments are valid, but can be adressed with the proper channels of socialization based in real life. IE - extracuricular clubs, community events, volunteering, jobs, church events, etc.

Your arguments about religion and family basis are sad. I don't think one can ever be too close to either. When it's all said and done, NO ONE loves me like my family. If I had to choose them or my friends...I'd choose my family in a heartbeat. You must have a very sad relationship with your family to make that a negative.
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novo4
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My daughter is currently in public schools(perhaps not much longer) and her best friend is in a different grade and she never even sees her in school only after. SO why would a homeschooler not be able to develop a close friendship unless this was perhaps an ability already lacking in that person? To blame homeschooling is ridiculous. My kids are not able to socialize in school, which is a main reason for me leaning towards pulling them. They are assigned seats in the lunchroom and are not to get up to talk to others, so the school decides who they are allowed to socialize with. There is no time before school, nor after. In grade school there are no in between class times either, so I think that against homeschooling has a misconception of what public school is all about.
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StellarStory
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: How easy is it to get back into Public School after HS? Reply with quote

dkatiemom wrote:
My son is falling through the cracks at school (I have described this in other posts on this board).

He is in the 2nd grade, but since last year has been falling behind and, in many cases, when he can't keep up the class moves on without him. He is only given a certain amount of time in the resource room for one-on-one instruction, where he thrives (This is only allowed for certain subjects which were described as his weakest ones). Ironically, those subjects that school staff once said were at grade level or above are now below, because of the lack of one-on-one.

At home he is bright, inquisitive, happy and full of energy. It is amazing to see the transformation that occurs from the second we enter the school building each morning.

SOOOOO much potential, yet now all of that is slipping further and further away as his classmates move on without him.


I have decided to homeschool him, in an effort to get him back to his grade levels and then to see how far he can advance with that intensive, supportive new learning environment. I want to make sure he is NEVER "left behind" again.

My husband has the conventional reservations about homeschooling (he hasn't researched it, so he shares the same uninformed opinion I once did). His big worry is that, should our son want to go back into the school system once he is caught up, how easy would it be?

I have no idea about this, and am curious as well. I think that once I start homeschooling him, it may go so well that I would balk at sending him back because his learning style is incompatible with the way PS is run.
But I want to know the answer to this so that I can at least give my husband an idea.

My husband was a "band geek", and I now realize he had hopes that our son would follow in those footsteps because he enjoyed it so much in his teen years. I think he was also very much a social butterfly, and loved the whole high school experience.

Did I enjoy my school experience? Not so much. I can remember eating lunch in a bathroom stall because I had no friends and nowhere to go when entering the cafeteria, whose table sections were broken down by order of social rank. I'm getting sweaty palms just thinking about that.

Anyway, my son is the one who counts here, but, should he wish to return to school, I would not want it to be next to impossible for him to be able to get back in.

Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated! Smile


I know a family that home schooled each child for one year only, in the fourth grade and then returned them to public school. They didn't have any problems that I could tell though I'm not sure about the process they went through.

I do know they used Shurley English and Saxon Math. I'm not sure what else they used.

I expect once you try home school you will find it suits you and your son so well you'll never go back.

Our cover school has a band program btw. That and other such programs are some of the reasons I picked it.

My husband was terrified about home school. He was sure the kids would lose ground academically and we'd all be fighting all the time.

His found that it's been exactly the opposite!

Good luck!

Stellar
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