Homeschool World Forum

[dkatiemom]

My son is falling through the cracks at school (I have described this in other posts on this board).

He is in the 2nd grade, but since last year has been falling behind and, in many cases, when he can't keep up the class moves on without him. He is only given a certain amount of time in the resource room for one-on-one instruction, where he thrives (This is only allowed for certain subjects which were described as his weakest ones). Ironically, those subjects that school staff once said were at grade level or above are now below, because of the lack of one-on-one.

At home he is bright, inquisitive, happy and full of energy. It is amazing to see the transformation that occurs from the second we enter the school building each morning.

SOOOOO much potential, yet now all of that is slipping further and further away as his classmates move on without him.


I have decided to homeschool him, in an effort to get him back to his grade levels and then to see how far he can advance with that intensive, supportive new learning environment. I want to make sure he is NEVER "left behind" again.

My husband has the conventional reservations about homeschooling (he hasn't researched it, so he shares the same uninformed opinion I once did). His big worry is that, should our son want to go back into the school system once he is caught up, how easy would it be?

I have no idea about this, and am curious as well. I think that once I start homeschooling him, it may go so well that I would balk at sending him back because his learning style is incompatible with the way PS is run.
But I want to know the answer to this so that I can at least give my husband an idea.

My husband was a "band geek", and I now realize he had hopes that our son would follow in those footsteps because he enjoyed it so much in his teen years. I think he was also very much a social butterfly, and loved the whole high school experience.

Did I enjoy my school experience? Not so much. I can remember eating lunch in a bathroom stall because I had no friends and nowhere to go when entering the cafeteria, whose table sections were broken down by order of social rank. I'm getting sweaty palms just thinking about that.

Anyway, my son is the one who counts here, but, should he wish to return to school, I would not want it to be next to impossible for him to be able to get back in.

Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated!

[Theodore]

In answer to your question on how easy it is to get back into public school, that depends largely on the school. Most schools will require your son to take a placement test, but some will place him at the lowest grade level for any subject, while others may let one subject slide a bit so long as he's at a higher level in all the other subjects. There's no way to predict what any particular school's policy is going to be, so if you think you may be putting your son back into the public school system at some later date, the best thing to do is contact your school and get their policies in writing.

Another option would be charter schools, which are still officially part of the public school system, but are somewhat more lenient regarding grade levels. You could perhaps use one of these to transition.

Very few people go back to the public school system once they've tried homeschooling, however
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[momo3boys]

GOd bless you through this endevor. My son too only thrives with one-on-one and homeschool has helped him tremendously, He still gets sped classes a few day s a week for a hour but the rest is at home. THe "What a ___grader needs to know" books are a good resource as far as what to teach them when if you want to get back in the school system. Some states have the state approved curriculum online, so you know what to do.
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[Against Homeschooling]

I found the transition from a homeschooling lifestyle to high school difficult but extremely rewarding. Obviously, I wouldn't recommend homeschooling your child for any extended period of time, since it will only make things harder when he does want to go back (which I sincerely hope he does - I'm sure you've noticed that kids who homeschool throughout high school end up with some strange quirks.)

I urge you to work with your child so that he doesn't end up with the same negative high school experience that you did. He may be young now, but you can work with him to develop the social skills necessary to succeed in the wider world.

[Theodore]

You mean strange quirks like creativity and being willing to speak up in class? I do highly recommend taking at least some community college courses, and in a number of states you can also participate in sports at your local high school, but there are no benefits imho to being formally enrolled in any stage of the public school system. You do not get to socialize while sitting in class, it's what you do after school that matters, and homeschoolers have a heck of a lot more after school time.

Homeschooling does not mean isolation, and the purpose of school (public or otherwise) is not to provide you with a social life. It's to provide you with an education.
_________________
The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers.

[Against Homeschooling]

The "quirk" of speaking up in class is hardly limited to those who homeschool - I see a lot of people on this forum, in fact, who seem to desire a quieter classroom environment. However, a related trait that I have observed in homeschoolers (albeit primarily via classes involving multiple families back when I was homeschooled) is the apparent inability to shut up during a lesson. Interrupting the speaker with countless, mundane questions is a sign of an inferior student.

For the last time, how would you have any insight into how socialization occurs at school? I'm so loaded down with homework that during the school week I see more of some of my friends in school than out of school. There is time between classes, at the ends of classes, during lunch, and before and after school for socialization (not to mention clubs and band activities) which are what homeschoolers are really missing in their lonely little lives. So, if I had to list those little quirks, I'd probably postulate that longtime homeschoolers:

-Do not have meaningful friendships.
-Lack social skills appropriate to everyday interaction.
-Do not develop strong personalities.
-Don't know how to dance.
-Have never been to a rock concert.
-Center their lives on family life to an abnormal degree.
-Have never been on a date.
-Do not possess even a periphery knowledge of popular culture, and as a result form outrageous judgments on various aspects of it.
-Develop philosophical, political and religious beliefs which mirror those of their parents.
-Are insecure around strangers.
-Can't speak in public effectively.
-Hold an irrational distrust of the public school system.

They're not all going to be true, but some are. It's not a risk that I'd take.

Chances are some people will jump in here and tell me that some of those things are not desirable traits and that they want their children to grow up without these influences. Those people will be shooting themselves in the foot, admitting what ridiculous social platforms they really are promoting by homeschooling. Others will take the other side and tell us all the reasons that their children have no lives. Others may share touching anecdotes about the adversity their children faced in the public school system. None of it will make homeschooling any better an option.

[Theodore]

Hmm.

-Do not have meaningful friendships.
How would you define meaningful? Is it determined by the amount of time you spend sitting in the same room with someone?

-Lack social skills appropriate to everyday interaction.
I don't know who you've been looking at, but the homeschoolers we know don't have that problem. Sure, homeschoolers may not necessarily be up on the latest fashions, fads, music, etc., and this can sometimes cause a "culture" gap, but do you really want to connect with people who are that shallow?

We have all sorts of friends from church, neighborhood, community college, assorted extracurriculars, etc. The majority are public schoolers. Are we just lucky, or could you perhaps be mistaken?

-Do not develop strong personalities.
Again, how do you define strong personality? Is it someone who believes totally in their point of view, or it just someone who rebels against their parents? I would say that this is your single most ridiculous point, seeing as how businesses and colleges are always remarking on how homeschoolers are most likely to speak up and take leadership positions. I occasionally get into trouble myself when my personality is too strong, but never for the opposite reason

-Don't know how to dance.
Neither do the vast majority of public schoolers. Have you ever attended a dance and observed the general quality thereof? I will admit that I don't know how to dance myself, but that's mostly because of physical handicaps. My siblings have taken some actual dance lessons.

-Have never been to a rock concert.
That's a huge loss. My life is now ruined. I have however been to a number of homeschool and juggling conventions. I think juggling conventions trump most rock concerts.

-Center their lives on family life to an abnormal degree.
Abnormal is an ambiguous term. Staying at home all the time is a bit much, but until fairly recently, the alternative was running the chance of having social workers come and take you away. Now homeschooling is more mainstream, there are dozens or hundreds of homeschool organizations in every state, and homeschoolers can safely participate in regular (and in some states, school) extracurriculars. Even if you are correct about homeschoolers being maladjusted in the past - which I still debate - that's not a good reason why people just now starting to homeschool will have the same problems.

-Have never been on a date.
Date is also ambiguous. If you don't stay at home all the time, you will meet people you like, and if you meet people you like, you'll hopefully be able to go out and do fun things with them - but if your definition of date is just making out, you're probably correct that a lot of homeschoolers pass this up until they're an age at which they can marry and actually support a family.

-Do not possess even a periphery knowledge of popular culture, and as a result form outrageous judgments on various aspects of it.
What sort of popular culture? Do you have to jump over a cliff to know you'll go smush at the bottom?

-Develop philosophical, political and religious beliefs which mirror those of their parents.
Statistics show that this is generally the case for all childen, regardless of whether they're homeschooled or not. But I'd consider it quite a compliment to homeschooling parents if in fact very few of their children disagreed with them to any major extent, considering that rebellion usually means abusive, inattentive, or naive parents. I love my parents the way they are

-Are insecure around strangers.
No problems here. Insecurity usually stems from being afraid of being made fun of, and a good education and the knowledge that your family is backing you give you the confidence to weather pretty much anything. Look around the forum, there are posts from people who are so afraid of public school that they get physically sick.

Homeschoolers do typically identify better with adults than children their own age, but that's because the children their own age are so shallow and have nothing in common with them. See the part about popular culture above.

-Can't speak in public effectively.
This is just an expansion of the item above. How big a percentage of public schoolers do you think can give a coherent, convincing argument on any important issue? You do know that Patrick Henry, the college run by Home School Legal Defense Association, has won more debate awards every year since its founding than probably any other college in the US? Just to give a typical example, in 2003 Patrick Henry won the award for best overall debate program; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th place awards in the open speaker competition; 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th place awards in the open team competition; and 1st place in the singles competition. And homeschoolers take far more than their percentage of major leadership positions in college.

-Hold an irrational distrust of the public school system.
It's only irrational if it's unfounded. Bad education? Check. Violence? Check. Inappropriate curriculum? Check. Public school extracurriculars usually aren't so bad, but that's because only the more motivated public schoolers volunteer for them, and there's a lot more parent interaction.

Given, not all public schools are bad, and not all homeschools are good, but in terms of averages, homeschooling just plain shows better results than public schooling, and I don't see that changing any time soon unless there's some serious reform of the public school system. School vouchers and some form of basic teacher testing would be a good start, if the teachers' unions weren't busily blocking any proposal of that sort.
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The Farming Game - Software Edition for PC, Mac, Linux
The board game has sold over 350,000 copies worldwide, garnered many awards, is used by over 2,000 schools, and is used extensively by homeschoolers.

[Mark]

*scraps intended post*

thanks Theodore... you save me good deal of typing.
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[Mark]

hey there.. when the time comes for your son to pick up an
instrument.. (the sooner the better, btw) there are other
venues than public school for him to play in.

My son is in one of the community bands up in Denton..
started at 14 there.
He's been playing in the church orchestra since 11 or 12.


mark
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[leadingmom]

I feel bad for this Against Homeshooling child .. There must be more to his story, he has too much aggression.

Never have I heard a cry for attention more!

Read all the postings this poor child has done. Once you get through a few, do you come up with the same feelings?

This boy, whom is yet in school, has not much experience in life.
He suggests to parents, parenting skills he knows nothing of.

I too was a home school child and through High School. Sorry, but most of your claims about Home School Children is utterly absurd.

I know of NO home school child that suffers from any of your claims, yet wonder if you were describing the situation you ran into?

No Friends or never been on a date?

If your parents were causing you suffering and they were not filling all of your needs, I wonder what their prospective on HS was.

Not being able to speak in public? Personalities in people determine their comfort zone, I know if many PS adults that suffer from public speaking and I don't think that is the fault of a past teacher, why would you relate this to HS? Did your parents lock you in a closet?

College... Anyone in the corporate world I work in that was HS had a great transition and much success. I do hope that it is as much of a success for you once you get there.

Also, when you get to the stage in your life to plan a family, I hope you are mature enough to go into that public school that you are so compelled to turn your child over to and make sure they are not allowing your child to suffer in anyway, just as your parents made you suffer in HS.

Once you can make that intelligent decision, you will have more data to process your opinions with.

You see, you have criticized people in this forum for typo's, reasons they have to HS are unjustified, yet you yourself do not have enough experience to base an opinion on, nor do you have the objectivity in mind that parents with children have.

In the work field, experience will get you the job.
Allow yourself to become educated in the field, only then will you be able to train someone.
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[Against Homeschooling]

[Ramona]

I went to public school for 13 years and developed very few meaningful friendships there.

My always-homeschooled children ages 15 and 16 have far better social skills appropriate to everyday interaction than I did when I was their ages.

My experience as a mother of 6 is that personality strength is a matter of nature at least as much as nurture. Some of us are just born with strong personalities.

I never learned much dancing from my 13 years of public school. I learned swing dancing at church and waltzing from my parents. I took ballet at the YMCA. My always-homeschooled children have also learned swing-dancing at church, as well as folk-dancing. They're quite good.

I attended one rock concert when I was in high school and the only good thing about it was that I learned that I never cared to go to another one.

When I was in public high school I went on exactly 2 dates. The first one was not until more than a year after I was old enough by my parents' standards. My always-homeschooled son, age 16, has been on a date already--a double date with 3 kids who go to public school.

Why does one need to form non-outrageous judgments on popular culture?

Throughout public school I was warned again and again never to speak to strangers. As a result, I was terrified to open my mouth in the presence of, oh, say the assistant principals. They were absolute strangers to me. My always-homeschooled children, OTOH, are very secure and confident around strangers. They know how to protect themselves should anyone prove an actual threat.

In my junior and senior years of public school I was in the forensic league--a public-speaking team--yet to this day I still get terribly nervous when speaking in public. My always-homeschooled children, however, are acclaimed, sought-after public speakers. On a recent occasion my 16-y-o DS lost track of time and talked longer than he had been assigned. Afterward, many adult members of the audience expressed satisfaction at having been able to hear him instead of the adult whose time he took up.

My always-homeschooled children frequently explain, very rationally indeed, exactly what they distrust about the public school system. Their distrust is based on the experiences their public-schooled friends have been telling them all their lives.

[Mark]

You see, AH, it's like this.
Everyday, I face the opposite of what you say is the norm for homeschoolers.

I admit it, my kids haven't gone to a rock concert, but then, they don't like
rock music. They're into Jazz and Classical instead.
Thusly they have been to hear the Dallas Symphony Orchestra, as well
as the local Jazz festivals.

For the rest of your assertions, I have answered them in other places as
having no bearing at all to the reality of my children.
Perhaps it truly was that way for you, in which case you have my
sympathy. It is not true for the homeschoolers I know, and especially not
of my household.

ttyl,
mark
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[micheller79]

you obviously need a good spanking Against Homeschooling
I am praying for your parents.

[rafismom]

So, if I had to list those little quirks, I'd probably postulate that longtime homeschoolers:

-Do not have meaningful friendships.
-Lack social skills appropriate to everyday interaction.
-Do not develop strong personalities.
-Don't know how to dance.
-Have never been to a rock concert.
-Center their lives on family life to an abnormal degree.
-Have never been on a date.
-Do not possess even a periphery knowledge of popular culture, and as a result form outrageous judgments on various aspects of it.
-Develop philosophical, political and religious beliefs which mirror those of their parents.
-Are insecure around strangers.
-Can't speak in public effectively.
-Hold an irrational distrust of the public school system.

They're not all going to be true, but some are. It's not a risk that I'd take.
/quote]

Those who lack social skills might actually be on the autism spectrum which has ZERO to do with being HS, other than that they might learn better and be bullied less if they are out of the schools. (Oh yes, I have a BS degree in Ed. with a minor in Special Ed).

Well, your problems you are projecting on the world probably had more to do with your parents being strict fundamentalists than homeschooling. I have 4 kids over 18, All are older than you are, and all were fairly long term homeschooled. All had a strong basis in family life, which their poor public schooled friends mostly lacked. All became leaders the second they got into school, none are insecure around strangers although all were when they were little (hey, it is a normal stage), all are good public speakers and carry responsibility much better than most of their peers who were not given responsibility in the schools. Oh yes, and all are HF autistics who learned to socialize by being around a wide range of ages, backgfrounds, etc while homeschooling....much broader contacts than schools generally provide.

IMO, AH, you are judging all homeschoolers by your own parents and doing exactly what adolescents are supposed to do : rebelling. Congratulations, you have now become normal in at least one thing in spite of your parents having (I am sure) done the best they could.

Jane in MN