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Vaccinate or not vaccinate?
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ncmom
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Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 321
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

momo3boys wrote:
I too am looking for the chicken pox fot my youngest, I can't seem to find them anymore! Confused


I haven't had any luck and I have been looking for almost 10 years now. My middle and youngest haven't had it. My daughter is almost 10 and my youngest is 10 months so I am always on the lookout! Watch in the spring, that seems to be the best time. I have heard so many bad things about the Chicken Pox vaccine. I also hear that it wears off by the time they are in early adulthood. It is so much worse as adults and can cause so many more health problems. This vaccine was made for working parents who didn't want to take the time off work, but now most state funded agencies require it for kids.

I wish I still had that report saved to my computer. I will see if I can find it again.
This isn't the one I had but it has some of the info on it wearing off.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/23/health/he-chickenpox23

I would love to find a chicken pox party! I tell everyone I know around me to let me know when they hear of someone with chicken pox so I can expose my kids. You can imagine the looks I get! Shocked Confused
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4given
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Posts: 735
Location: S.Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link, ncmom. Geez! All 4 of mine have had the chicken pox vaccine. My two oldest still got it, albeit mild. My other two haven't had it crop up... yet. They are 6yo and 2yo.

If I knew then, what I know now.....
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Theodore
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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Location: Missouri, US

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chickenpox is not what I'd call a dangerous disease unless you catch it when you're an older adult. Most of us had it as children, and I was the only one who even had a fever. Given, it was pretty miserable being covered in itchy sores, but not worth being vaccinated against, imho.

Yes, some of the articles about mercury / Thimerosal are pretty scary, though it's still less likely you will develop problems as a result of taking a few vaccines, than that you will die or be severely impaired by catching polio, measles, mumps, etc. Not that you shouldn't do everything you can to get vaccines without dangerous preservatives, mind you...
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bubbaansissy
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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Location: Deep South - Best Kept Secret

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you know that things like measles, pertussis, polio, etc. were in a major decline before the gov't started mandating vaccines. So, if the diseases were all declining, why do you think the gov't started requiring them? Hmmm....sounds to me like (and this is just my opionion) they were making deals w/ all of the major pharmaceuticals/drug makers. Now look at all the questions surrounding these vaccines. Also, have you ever heard of anyone (vaccinated or not) having polio? rubella? pertussis? measles?....???? how about chicken pox? ever heard of anyone having chicken pox that was vaccinated against it? YES!!!!! so, why even get the vaccine that is suppose to prevent us from getting it? & what's so wrong w/ getting the chicken pox? most of us had it when we were children & we're still alive to tell about it. in fact, most parents back then wanted you to get chicken pox so you wouldn't get it when you were older. ah....begs the question to vaccinate or not??? does anyone really know what's best anymore? our gov't sure thinks they know what's better for my children than i do & that's just simply nonsense. Rolling Eyes
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Minniewannabe
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Joined: 24 Apr 2008
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best friend from grade school is still partially paralyzed and deformed from polio. He got it two years before the vaccine came out. Watching him stay almost one year in a body cast was heartbreaking. John used to be the fastest kid on the street until then. We're now in our 40's. John would tell you the worst part, however is the constant pain.

In regards to the chicken pox vaccine, anyone who has had shingles, especially those who retain the pain lifelong, would have killed to have had the chicken pox vaccine. And the mom who I met once who got chicken pox while pregnant would have killed to have delivered a normal baby. If only the vaccine had been available then.

The reason we don't see many of these diseases today is because of vaccination. Those children who currently opt out, for whatever reason, still have the benefit of herd immunity. Yes, there have been some scary things happen from immunizations in the past. There have been scary things happen from all drugs. But immunizations are like all drugs in that one should weigh the benefits with the risks. Talk to your doctor, or other educated source, do appropriate research, and try not to rely on scare tactics of those who don't know what they're talking about. This is one of those areas where you shouldn't assume anything or make decisions based on hearsay as you could be dealing with your child's life.
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bubbaansissy
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minniewannabe,

I think the last couple of sentences were completely inappropriate, as you do not know whom I have spoken with concerning vaccinations. As I've stated, the things I have posted here are completely my opinions & am not asking anyone to share them. I am doing what I think is best for my children & yes, I realize that I am dealing w/ my child's life, thank you.

Minniewannabe wrote:
Talk to your doctor, or other educated source, do appropriate research, and try not to rely on scare tactics of those who don't know what they're talking about. This is one of those areas where you shouldn't assume anything or make decisions based on hearsay as you could be dealing with your child's life.

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Our motto for now: accidents happen.......
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bubbaansissy
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With respect, you are talking about a friend from childhood contracting polio...& if you are in your 40's, that's what I'm talking about. You do not hear of a majority of people contracting these diseases since like the early 1900 era....

Herd immunity? This is nothing more than a made up term by those trying to project their views onto others and that we, unvaccinated, are benefitting from the vaccinated. The diseases had been in decline long before the "required" vaccinations by our gov't. It's your choice to vaccinate your children or not. I choose not to & I think herd immunity is just more smoke in mirrors. I totally disagree w/ the concept. The facts are that the diseases are so uncommon now, in this century, and in this country. Scare tactics? The gov't & drug companies are the ones trying to scare the public into having all these unncessary, harmful vaccinations just b/c they want to keep raking in the $$! Honestly, how can our gov't come to us now & say that these diseases, that were pushed upon us for 30 yrs + were wrong? They can't & so they keep coming up w/ new ways to justify it. Hope they enjoy their $$ in the short time they get to spend it, b/c they will rot in.........for it.

That's about all I should say about this for now....thanks y'all!!!!!
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Homeschooling Mama of Jake & Kenzie Leigh
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Our motto for now: accidents happen.......
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polio, measles, etc. had been in decline because of better hygiene and more knowledge about medicine, but there's a limit to how far you can reduce diseases solely by increasing public knowledge, and the reason there are so few cases in the US now even among people who haven't been vaccinated is because most people have been vaccinated. The apparent risk has lowered, so some people think they're better off not vaccinating at all - which could be true so long as only a few people do it, but if everyone does it, might end up being fatal. Better not plan on ever moving to a poor area or visiting a foreign country, that's all I can say.

Given, I don't think vaccination should be forced on you by the government. That way lies bribery and coverups.
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oneofthegirls
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Joined: 03 Oct 2008
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Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: confused Reply with quote

My twin girls have had their immunizations divided among doctors office and local health unit..mostly health unit. We lost everything in a house fire 1 and a half years ago- that included all records of shots given that they've had. When we went for a checkup, I was to bring their shot records with me, so my husband went to the health unit to pick them up.
They could only find sn and not sv in their records- she did not exist! I had no way of proving that she had any shots at all. There is a national data base, and they checked that and found that both my girls had been combined into 1 child due to human error.
I don't know how they 'divided' their records up, but they did and presented it to me. It shows that 1 of my girls did not receive some shots that the other did..and they insisted that I redo these shots- I said 'no'.
Both girls were brought to every check up together, because they were twins, and received the same shots at the same time- it wouldn't make sense for me to get one and not the other. For that matter, how do I know they have the right child that needs the right shot??
I am confused, and not wanting to repeat any shots at all.
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Minniewannabe
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Joined: 24 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree I wouldn't want to repeat any shots, but from a physical standpoint it's not a big deal. Talk to your doctor about your concerns. Children have safely been revaccinated because of lost records for years.

Nonetheless, it won't make any difference unless your twins enter school and have to prove their immunizations. Also, certain jobs require immunizations, but those usually require additional vaccinations or re-vaccination anyway.

Nonetheless, it would be ideal to have an accurate shot record. If you are lucky enough to know if you went to their physician or the health department for the immunizations in question, then you might be able to prove both girls' records. It will take some demanding on your part, but whoever gave the injection had to document and retain which batch and lot went to whom. So while your girls' records might be inaccurate, the master pharmacy list had to be completed. Demand that this record be reviewed. It's really the least they can do since they screwed up something so important.
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oneofthegirls
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:48 am    Post subject: again thanks Reply with quote

Thanks minninwannabe,
Some shots were given at the docs. office, and they haven't been for a while- so I'll try to request an immunization list from them and see what happens. I was just conerned with repeating shots that had already been given and the harm that might do. I am just frustrated that I had lost the list of shots given in the fire, I always kept them in their baby books.
I'm sure the girls were up to date- this missing shot would have been given when they were infants... they had been to wic appointments and they surely would have raised a fuss over the missing shots before then. Also- my girls were given 4 shots at a time because they missed some, and I know the attendant did not write them all down- because later that became a factor.
Oh- I just remembered- lol- the mother's day out program that I taught at- I had to give an account of their shot record- I wonder if they still have that..it's worth a try? thanks
gina
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momo3boys
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What frustrates me is that at least in MA, you can reject the notion of vaccinations all together for religious or philosophical reasons, or accept them all. There is no middle ground. I have some I want for my boys and others I don't and thankfully I'm homeschooling, but isn't it a bit ridiculous? All or nothing?
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Jennywrites
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard of someone that has had measles- Me! five years ago, and it was horrible. If I had it a year later it would have been when I was pregnant with my second son. Many diseases that were previously almost eradicated in the US are making a come back because of those no longer getting vaccinated teamed with increased foreign travel and immigration. Flue shots are mandatory for my family if we want to visit my father, who has a compromised immune system due to severe heart disease and cancer. The flu will kill him, plain and simple.

I have held off on several vaccinations with my children until they were older due to concerns, but I did plan for them to have them once they were older and more able to deal with complications if they did happen. If you want to travel to certain countries you may also be required to get vaccinated later in life if you choose not to now. We recently had an outbreak of whooping cough here, and many small children were critically ill with the disease. Chickenpox does frighten me, as both my DH and his sister were hospitalized with it as children (under the age of 10). DH's fever was so bad thay were afraid he was going to be brain damaged. I had it when I was 6 and just remember being itchy. It affects some people differently and I don't want to chance my boys reacting like DH did.

While I do believe it is up to each family to do as they see best, I do hope they also consider that they may be putting others in their community at risk as well. It is a personal decision that may affect others and that must be taken into account. If you wish to volunteer or be around those who may have a compromised immune system due to age or disease, keep in mind your choice not to vaccinate may be deadly to them.
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pio444
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:19 am    Post subject: Vaccines derived from aborted babies Reply with quote

U.S. Vaccines Derived From Abortion

Disease Vaccine Name Manufacturer Cell line (Fetal)
Polio Poliovax Aventis-Pasteur MRC-5
Measles, Mumps, Rubella
Mumps-Rubella

Measles-Rubella

Rubella only
MMR II

Biavax II
MR-VAX

Meruvax II
Merck & Company WI-38
Rabies Imovax Aventis-Pasteur MRC-5
Hepatitis A Havrix
Vaqta
Merck & Company
Glaxo/SmithKline

MRC-5
MRC-5

Hepatitis A-B Combo Twinrix Glaxo/SmithKline MRC-5
Chickenpox Varivax Merck & Company WI-38 and MRC-5
Smallpox Acambis 1000 Acambis MRC-5
Ebola Unknown Crucell & N.I.H. PER C6
HIV Unknown Merck & Company PER C6
Sepsis Xigris Eli Lilley 293

For more information on Xigris, PER C6, 293 Cell Lines and AD5 Vectors

U.S. Vaccine Alternatives
NOTE: No alternatives for Chickenpox, Rubella, Hepatitis-A, Ebola or HIV in U.S.
Disease
Vaccine Name Manufacturer Cell line
Polio IPOL Aventis-Pasteur Monkey kidney cells
Mumps Mumpsvax Merck & Company Chick embryo
Rabies RabAvert Chiron Therapeutics Chick embryo
Measles Attenuvax Merck & Company Chick Embryo
Smallpox Acambis 2000 Acambis-Baxter Vero (Monkey)

Additional Facts - Rubella

The Rubella vaccine, produced by Merck & Company was taken from an aborted baby during the 1964 rubella epidemic when some mothers were advised to have abortions, rather than risk their child being born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome. It was from the 27th baby aborted and immediately dissected that the active rubella virus was finally found. It was commonly referred to as RA27/3, where R=Rubella, A=Abortus, 27=27th fetus, 3=third tissue culture explant. The abortionist collaborated with the Wistar Institute to collect the aborted babies in order to isolate the virus. The vaccine virus was then cultivated in the lung tissue of another aborted female baby, approximately 3 months gestation. (WI-3Cool This abortion was done for the mother because "the parents felt they had too many children." (American Journal Diseases of Children, Vol. 118, 1969).The new vaccine was developed in Philadelphia, Pa. and tested on orphans. (American Journal Diseases of Children, Vol. 110, Oct. 1965) Considering that there was already two licensed rubella vaccines on the market and considering that they could have done exactly what the Japanese did in order to isolate the rubella virus (they swabbed the throat of an infected child), it is obvious this vaccine was created in order to justify fetal tissue research. It is also important to note that Rubella is basically a harmless childhood disease that is only considered to have possible serious effects on the unborn child when a pregnant woman is exposed to the virus during her first trimester. Should this occur, 20-25% of these cases will develop some form of Congenital Rubella Syndrome, which may cause malformations of the heart, eyes or brain, deafness, or liver, spleen and bone marrow problems.

Sources: Christina Abel RN.
Merck & Company

Additional Facts - Hepatitis A

Havrix, the vaccine used to treat Hepatitis-A, uses a virus strain (HM175) propagated in MRC-5 human diploid (lung) cells which were taken from a male fetus aborted at 14 weeks gestation. These cells are lysed to form a suspension which is purified through ultrafiltration and gel permeation chromotography. The method is referenced to a standard using an Enzyme Linked Immunosorbent Assay (E.L.I.S.A.) and is expressed in terms of units (E.L.U.)

Havrix contains a sterile suspension of inactivated virus strains. The adult dosage consists of not less than 1440 E.L.U. viral antigen, 0.5mg of aluminum as aluminum hydroxide and 0.5% of 2-phenoxyethanol as a preservative. Other excipients are amino acid supplement (0.3%) in a phosphate buffered saline solution, polysorbate 20 (0.05mg/ml), MRC-5 cell proteins not greater than 5mgg and traces of formalin, not greater than 0.1mg.
Source: SmithKline Beecham www.sb.com (vaccines-Havrix)

Additional Facts - Chickenpox

VARIVAX was developed with the use of aborted fetuses. It uses both the human cell lines, named WI-38 (Wistar Institute) and MRC-5 (Medical Research Council). The vaccine contains residual components of their DNA and protein. The cell lines were derived from the lung tissue of an aborted female at 3 months gestation and an aborted male at 14 weeks gestation. The cells of these fetuses were then developed in a lab culture to produce several vaccines.

VARIVAX also contains MSG (monosodium glutamate) in 2 forms, according to Jack Samuels, an expert on MSG. According to the FDA, MSG is not advised for infants, children, or pregnant women or children of childbearing age, and people with affective (mental/emotional) disorders.

According to VARIVAX product literature, the vaccine contains gelatin and trace amounts of neomycin, and should not be given to people allergic to them; it should not be given to anyone with an immune disorder, or anyone receiving drugs which affect the immune system such as chemotherapy or steroids; it should not be given to people with untreated tuberculosis or certain other infections.

Dr. A. Lavin of the Department of Pediatrics, St. Luke’s Medical Center in Cleveland, Ohio, strongly opposed licensing VARIVAX, “Until we actually know...the risks involved in injecting mutated DNA [the vaccine] into the host genome [children].”

Studies show that up to 3% of VARIVAX recipients contract chicken pox from the vaccine, and that some chicken pox cases may be contracted from recently vaccinated children. Vaccine recipients may therefore pose a health risk to pregnant mothers or family members with chronic health problems or compromised immune systems.

Some studies suggest that chicken pox in a vaccinated child may be milder than in an unvaccinated child. However, some experts believe that this may be due to the vaccine suppressing the illness, which could actually signal a more serious underlying chronic condition. For example, “Atypical measles” is a disease that occurs only in people previously vaccinated for measles, and it is far more serious than regular measles. It is not yet known if “atypical chicken pox” cases will appear as a result of the use of VARIVAX.

The FDA VAERS' (Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System) first year surveillance of VARIVAX included over 1,500 reports. 76 were serious adverse reactions that included 2 deaths. While a VAERS report does not prove a causal relationship between the vaccine and the death or disability that follows, the vaccine is highly suspect in all such reports.

The FDA has stated that fewer than 10% of serious adverse reactions and deaths following vaccines are reported; independent researchers cite lower rates. The federal government has paid families of vaccine killed and disabled children nearly $100 million in taxpayer dollars each year since 1986 through the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVCIP).
Source: P.R.O.V.E. (Parents Requesting Open Vaccination Education)
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comusher
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The decision on whether to vaccinate or not should be made in a case by case manner.
Some vaccines may have possible side effects but the illness it prevents may be worse and on the rise.
Take time to research each and every vaccine and carefully pick those you will or will not use.
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