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Why I am against Homeschooling
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bobbinsx5
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wouldn't call fitting into public school a good thing.


AMEN!

Quote:
I think it's time to leave the debate to others. Feel free to get in the last word.


Theodore, I have been watching this thread with great interest and haven't said anything because you have done an excellent job!

AH, I feel for you and I'm sorry HS didn't work for you. As strongly as you are against HS, I am against public school. I am against public school for a multitude of reasons, one of the biggest being I lived through public school and it was awful. I endured teasing from the time I entered in 3rd grade until I graduated from high school. As much as people want to say that it prepares you for dealing with the real world, I have not encountered that same type of environment since I left college. (I am 35, by the way, so it's been more than just a few years.)

Quote:
What is the matter with a teacher just wanting to be there because of the paycheck and the retirement? It’s a job! Not everyone has to be a teacher for the “love of the children.” Give me a break! If you expect all teachers to “love” their job and give 110%, wake up! Anyone with a full-time job doesn’t feel that way . . . I think 99% of teachers do a good job—but that’s it, “job!”)


Herein lies one of the major problems wrong with the PS. I know teachers in PS who love their job, they love the kids in their classes, and they are great teachers. However, there are far more that I have seen personally who do believe it is just a job, which makes them a terrible influence on the children. I don't want someone teaching my children who believe it is just a job. When our kids were in Christian school the teachers they had loved their students, prayed for them everyday, and it was a great experience. After God led us back to homeschooling I found out who was going to teach them this year, and it was someone who doesn't love them. I will not put my children in a position to have to learn from someone who doesn't love them or pray for them. If a teacher is a teacher because it is a job and has retirement benefits, then they are not going to be an effective teacher and their students are going to suffer. I'm not willing to place my children on their altar!
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hbmom36
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Joined: 06 May 2006
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Location: California

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: My two cents . . . Reply with quote

jacquekr wrote:
Some of the most important things I learned in my life were in high school—an inner-city high school in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I learned leadership (by being Student Body Vice President). I learned responsibility (by having to be at school by 7:30am and by having my tennis and track team count on me). I learned what my values were (by making a choice not to have sex, drink, and do drugs). I learned what it was to love myself (when the boy I had a crush on didn’t like me back). I learned what it was like to have fun (being on Homecoming Court, playing senior pranks, cheering our football team on during the state playoffs). And I’ve also learned to cherish memories (laughing with an old high school friend I haven’t talked to in 5 years).


You mean you couldn't have done ANY of this stuff without public school? Thomas Edison was forced out of school at the age of 12 because he was "feeble-minded." Do you know what he did after that? He started his own newspaper.
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leadingmom
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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny to hear the different views. I really enjoyed reading all the comments and some points were very good.

While "Against Homeschooling" is able to harbor his own feelings, one would wonder what the home life and surroundings was like?

I was public schooled until 9th grade and home schooled for High School. Not for trouble in school or teachers that were bad reasons. I had parents that traveled in the winter to warmer climate and the state of choice had quite a difference in academic ability compared to the school I was from.

They didn't know what to do with me in 9th grade becuase I was to advanced for their curriculum (Go figure) The teachers met about me and talked about graduating me early .. Yeah 4 years early! (I was all for it)

My Father would not stand for the thought and decided that Home Schooling was the only choice.

This was in 1980 and home schooling was really not accepted well within the public school community. It was as if that was something that members of some elite cult did.

It was the best decision my parents could make for my future and jumped in, fighting the public school the entire way.

Was I not able to communicate with people? Heck no! I still had a life .. I was in Youth group, eventually lead the group as well as movies, skating or whatever else with my friends.
One thing I did not do .. fall victim to many things others in the public school did. One person I was in school with experienced drugs to the point she had here stomach pumped. Another was pregnant.
They never made it to college and I finished with a 3.8 .. not as good as some home schoolers, but I was pretty pleased!

My parents did the best choice for my FUTURE. Not just my education.
If you were home schooled and didn't have any friends, I would have to guess it was choices made in life.

My children are now home schooled. They are involved in all sorts of activites as well as our home is the neighborhood hang out. We have many children here, public and home schooled, that play together.

Please don't harbor bad feelings for Home Schooling because of something that happened in your childhood. If you knew of a drunk that was bad, does that mean anyone that drinks is bad?

Home Schooling is not for everyone, in turn Public School is not either.
The good thing about living in America .. we have the freedom to choose.

I thank GOD that I have the choice to make and I am proud of my choice. When I see my children grow into the people they are becoming. It confirms my choice was the right one.

God bless to all of you that struggle with the idea and to "Against Homeschooling" I would be curious to see what your opinion is once you have children of your own in School. You never know .. Parenting is YOUR job, not the teacher in public school.

I want to raise an asset in life, not a liability.
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hbmom36
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Joined: 06 May 2006
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Location: California

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmmm....Our friend appears to have dropped out of the debate. Perhaps he IS doing some real research? I'm very sorry that homeschooling was a bad experience for him, but I wonder why he feels the need to rehash all the negative feelings with people who are committed to homeschooling?
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Mom
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Joined: 25 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a former PS teacher, I think it's unconscionable to say it's OK for a teacher to be just in it for the paycheck. A student in those classes KNOW that the teacher is not putting in their full effort, and it has a huge educational effect. Plus, As a teacher, what lesson do you think those students are learning when you ride payday to payday? That's right, you're teaching them to do the same. You're teaching them that there is nothing interesting or exciting about learning. You're teaching them to resent their own education. Awful.

At the same time, I blame the system for creating the problem. I entered, as good and idealistic a teacher as anyone could have asked for. I was all about the students, had high standards, and had students that loved and respected me for it. Five years later, I was desperately trying to put in my best effort without snapping at students, trying to retain any passion for teaching I had while being completely burned-out. I've now had a year off and know that I don't ever want to return to the PS system again. The system doesn't care about the students, and it doesn't care about the teachers, and it doesn't care about education. It wants to keep enough control over students to avoid incidents, and it wants to keep it's stats up so it looks good and gets money from the state. There are tons of great teachers - but the system kills them, unless they are lucky enough to land in a school that lets them do their thing and backs them up (few and far between). I'm now going to grad school in the fall.

I took my son out of school as a temporary measure, because he was falling behind so badly, but we're moving in 3 weeks. I found he was about 2 1/2 years behind in math, which we will have completely mastered in the next month (I pulled him out in March). He had learned almost nothing about social studies, and we are halfway through a unit on North America. His reading was far advanced, and they had him still doing stuff out of the grade level book - we've jumped ahead and he's reading stuff at his comprehension level (5-6th grade level, he's in 3rd grade and would probably have been further if the school had helped at all). Etc. etc. - I plan on putting him in PS again in the fall (in our new state), despite these issues, but I'm certainly going to check it out very closely beforhand and monitor it afterwards. And I will continue to work with him in our free time and during summers, just to make sure he's on top of things. With grad school, I really cannot continue to teach him full-time. But in a lot of ways, I wish I could - he's done so well!
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momo3boys
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to add a perspective that I haven't really seen here. I am homeschooling my children now with plans to go all the way through High School. I had an alright time in PS. I went k-12 like most here. All that a side though is some thing that I want to bring out. I don't know how many of you have heard of Dr. Robert Rohm. He teaches on personalities. I don't know if he created it or he is just specializing in it but he uses the D.I.S.C. theory. I won't go into it in depth but just enough for a little understanding.
D= stand for Dominate, Determined, Decisive, Direct, Demanding, Doer. They are a Outgoing Task oriented Person. a person that Takes charge.

I= Inspiring, Influencing, Impressionable, Interactive, Impressive, Involved. They are Out-going People Oriented. Someone that is bubblily fun loving.

S= supportive, Stable, Steady, Sweet, Status Quo, Shy. They are Reserved/ People oriented, They tend to just want every one to get along.

C= Cautious, Calculating, Competent, Conscientious, Comtemplative, Careful. They are a reserved/Task oriented. A person that is very detail oriented.

With this brief information it might give you understanding in what I am about to say. Our Current Public schools (I am generalizing here) only teach to half the population in a way that works for them. The "S" types and the "C" types. The ones that like book work and going with the flow. Now again this is a broad generalization but in me and my husbands case very true. I like to work with information and I don't won't to create a disturbance in the flow of things. Now my husband is outspoken and likes to have fun, both traits that aren't really excepted and/or tolerated in a classroom setting. My oldest son is like my husband in that he learns best when he is moving, fidgiting, and hands on. Again something that is not excepted in a class room setting. But someting that we can work with at home.

To know the personalities of our children is important in deciding how and where to have our children learn.
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Chrisy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enjoyed reading this post...I will be starting to homeschool my grandson from this year he has been in PS until now..
Kindergarten and 1st grade were a wonderful experiance for him and he loved school, he hated holidays and was always bored, unfortunately he had to move to a new school last fall and it has been the worst experience he could have ever had.

He has changed from an avid reader and grade A student to one who has been told he must repeat 2nd grade next year,,,why? because he refused to join a gang in his new elementary school resulting in him being bullied everyday all this year. He has been bitten, punched, kicked, scratched, pinched (until he bled), threatened and called everything you could think of, and all this from 8 yr olds

The school was made aware of this and the response we got was ' we are really sorry this is happening but we cant do anything, unless we actually see it happening, and then all we can do is send the offender to the principle for a talk about his/her behaviour ( yes girls were involved too ).meanwhile my grandson is coming home covered in bruises everyday, often with reports from the school nurse, he is unable to concentrate on his lessons because he is worried about what they are going to do to him, and the bullying continues in class too, ( throwing things at him, tripping him up poking him with pencils, one of which broke and we had to remove the lead from his arm) and if he asks them to stop he gets into trouble for talking in class.

The school has let him down really badly this year has given no support to help him catch up , even though we asked them to, they only hold catch up lessons for grade 3 and above, they told me I would have to teach him at home and that it was up to me to get his grades up ????? but they couldnt let me have the books I would need and wouldnt tell me what curriculum he was doing.Summer School was mentioned back in Feb but we have heard nothing about it since, although we have been asking his teacher if he would need to go, and when we got his final report last friday all it said was Academic Retention, Summer school not an option.
They also added that in their opinion they think he is ADHD and needs professional advice, he isn't ,yes he sometimes cant keep his mind on what he is supposed to be doing and will occasionally let his mind wander instead of doing what he should be and he hates sitting still for too long.He has been tested and we were told that he is a bright but bored child, the school was informed and the reply.....well he should be able to keep up easily then, so why isnt he? Shocked and the real reason he can't concentrate...he's scared. he has admitted that he has sometimes deliberately got into trouble just before recess...so that he will be kept in and not have to find out what they were going to do to him.

I have tried all year to help him without the necessary tools to do so and no help from the school, but he has hated school so much this year that we now have tantrums even trying to get homework done, so trying to do extra has been really hard on all of us. We have wanted to take him out of school since last November but circumstances meant that we couldnt, so, finally the horror is over for him,I am taking his teachers advice and I will be teaching him at home, the difference is that this time i know what the curriculum is and I will have the tools I need to do it.

In the last few days he has changed back into the loving little boy he always has been, and I actually saw him pick up a book to read last night,he would never have done that last week,he's starting to ask questions again, wanting to know how things work etc what the planets are and who named them and the most recent one 'why did they call it that?', he's always been a very curious child and has to have a good explanation for everything or he's not satisfied.

Until this year I had no problems with the PS system, he was doing well and had many friends, now,I don't think he will go back to PS and if bullying is part of socialisation for young children then I choose that he misses that part of it. ( and so does he )
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hbmom36
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't concentrate on something that bores him to tears? Can't concentrate when he's being bullied day in and day out? I don't call that ADHD. I call that NORMAL I was bullied constantly in school. When I complained to the guidance counselor about one of the boys I was told this kid was "one hurting puppy"!!! When I fought back and physically hurt this punk, I was the one hauled into the principal's office. And this bully who was "one hurting puppy"? He's spending the rest of his life in prison for a vicious, vicious assault on another young man. Did they do ANYONE any favors by letting this creep continue with his atrocious behavior?
Good for you, Chrisy. Sorry for the rant. I understand a bit of what your grandson went through.
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bobbinsx5
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand where both of you are coming from. As a parent and a student. There is a multitude of reasons why our children should not be in the public school!
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Chrisy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hbmom36
I forgot to add that bit...that's exactly what happened here too, he stood up for himself and punched the bully back...guess who ended up in the princple's office and to top it all he was told that 'that kind of behaviour is expected from the other boy but that they thought my grandson knew better than attack someone, they didnt take into account the little monster had just given him a black eye and that he had to go see the nurse as he complained of a headache after it.

We had to go see them at school after it, they said then that he seemed distracted in class, now I am normally a very calm person but I lost my temper that day and told them that I wasnt suprised how would they feel if they thought they were going to get beat up everytime they left the classroom, and usually did, would they be able to concentrate on anything else.
My husband also asked if anything had happened to the other kid and was told no as it was our grandson that hit him, he was furious. This kid is a know bully yet when he said he didnt do anything they actually believed him, the excuse was they were trying to help build his esteem,so chose to take his word this time, I was speechless.

The decision to deffinately homeschool was taken that evening, I cant believe that the PS let's this child do as he pleases and wont take him to task about it as they dont want to hurt his feelings, I feel so sorry for the little ones left in school, as he will have to choose another victim next year, so one of them will be in for a terrible year.

Seriously he is the kind of child I expect to see on the news in a few years, he needs help now before it's too late, and we are reading about another shooting in school.
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birdy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son had an experience like that in JK. Rediculous...

At the time we moved and got him into another school. It wasn't the right time for homeschool.

Now it is, and now we are.
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hbmom36
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrisy wrote:


Seriously he is the kind of child I expect to see on the news in a few years, he needs help now before it's too late, and we are reading about another shooting in school.


I heard a few years ago that there was a Canadian study that showed that school bullies have a very high percentage of lifetime incarceration rates later on in life. They just continue to victimize innocent people.
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Against Homeschooling
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I haven't dropped out of the debate. I'm just waiting for somebody to say something intelligent.

You really sound like a bunch of frightened mice about this bullying issue. Do you honestly believe that bullying is such a big problem that your dear little child will experience all this alleged bruising, pinching and stabbing with pencils? Bullying is utterly, completely wrong. However, so are many other things in our society. And unlike many of those other unavoidable evils, it is not terribly common and is relatively easy to deal with, if you have the right life skills to cope with it. Are you really telling me that the administration of this elementary school wouldn't do anything about your grandson being physically abused? I would guess that there was a lot more to your story than you posted on this message board.

Like I've said before, I have been going to school for the past year and a half. I've run into problems with other kids - everybody who is among their peers like any healthy adolescent does at one point or another. Well, here's some news for you, guys: it doesn't always have to escalate into bullying. Some kids shout stuff at you from across the hallway or push you around? You talk to them. Or you talk to someone in charge. It can be dealt with, and the system (and I quite agree that the American education system is a monster in many ways) will help you out. So bite the bullet and work with your kid instead of freaking out like stereotypical, overprotective parents. You and your child will get through it.

By the way, I am still somewhat shellshocked by the terrible use of the English language on this forum. "Rediculous"? Do you know what elipses are actually for? Are you people really trying to teach your kids how to write? How in the world do you grade their papers?
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:08 pm    Post subject: We all bow to your Socratic powers of debate. Reply with quote

We all bow to your Socratic powers of debate. So, your answer is that it's always either the kid's fault or the parent's fault, never the fault of the school administration for totally refusing to do anything about the bullying? That's a brilliant way to shift responsibility away from the schools, without even trying to solve the actual problem, which is kids being so terrified to go to school that in some cases they get physically sick. And what about the bullies themselves? They usually end up going straight from school to prison, which doesn't help them much either.

Also, what's the minimum age at which you think children should be ready to handle being constantly made fun of and/or beat up? Is it 12? 10? 8? 5? The real world may be harsh, but adults are more mature and better able to handle it than small children, who may or may not understand why everyone seems to hate them. Let's hear your opinion on the age at which a child should be ready for pain and suffering. Then, if that age is larger than the minimum school age, let's hear why public school is still preferable to homeschooling (even ignoring the massive academic advantages of homeschooling, and the fact that homeschoolers excell in college and the business world- contrary to popular thought re: socialization...)

Oh, and one last thing. You made fun of someone for misspelling ridiculous, then in your very next sentence used the word "elipses", which according to my English dictionary (and wikipedia) is not a word. Did you misspell ellipses, or did my dictionary forget a word? The world wants to know.

(By the way, the very fact that she misspelled ridiculous is an argument against public education, which has only gotten worse in the last 20-30 years. Answer keys solve the grading problem, or you can learn as you go and stay one jump ahead of your child)
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alisarussell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Thank you Theodore! Reply with quote

Thank you, thank you, Theodore. I could not have written it better myself. My husband and I were blamed for our child's problems at school.(one of which was name calling for his small size) When I witnessed him being bullied at the end-of-the year party, I told the teacher and she did nothing about it.(And this happened at a school that is supposedly a non-bullying school.) We will be homeschooling in the fall.
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