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Banned Books Week
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Calleigh
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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stellar is right in that she isn't going to change anyone's mind. People have their very strong opinions and to change it would be pretty incredible. I do want to say, though, that I believe a child can be raised in a loving enviroment and experience a "spanking" here and there and be fine. Not turning into a rebellious wild child, or a gone wild teenager. Someone in one of their posts said something about consistancy. I think that is key. If the kids KNOW they are loved and the discipline is consistant, they will be ok. (This excludes physical abuse, of course. I don't consider a spanking abuse.) But again, to each his own. My kids have gotten spankings before, and I know without a doubt that I didn't abuse them, and so do they.

I personally disagree with using anything except the hand, because how would you make sure you weren't hitting too hard? See, so many differences of opinions!! Looks like another "agree to disagree" topic. Neutral

Calleigh
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Lily
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this has gotten way off my original point, which was, if you practice violence in the home through corporal punishment, it's rather hypocritical to want to censor the public library and say the books are too violent. I mean, let's keep the violence from being practiced before we stop reading about it.
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lily wrote:
I think this has gotten way off my original point, which was, if you practice violence in the home through corporal punishment, it's rather hypocritical to want to censor the public library and say the books are too violent. I mean, let's keep the violence from being practiced before we stop reading about it.

I must say that you have made me rethink my original stand on banning books. Yes, I think I have changed my mind and I am a bit surprised as this is the first time I have done this as a result of a debate on a message board.

I find it just as hypocritical that anyone seeing spanking as equating to anything near REAL violence/abuse would also be against banning books describing the same violence/abuse she opposes as if words in a book cannot influence us, become a part of us, and shape us into who we are, therefore such books are "teaching" people how to be violent/abusive. So, my thoughts are that banning such books might be something I am willing to support.

Certainly, the day a bill is introduced to make spanking illegal in my state is the day I join a movement to ban all books with any and all kinds of violence at our public schools and libraries.
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Theodore
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, there are differing degrees of violence. You can't really equate a spanking or historical account of a war with a book that describes one person physically beating up or molesting another. Given, I don't think young children need to learn about the Holocaust and gas chambers, or about the Japanese and what they did to their captives, but not all "violence" is the same.

Yes, we've gotten a bit off-topic here. I think I've said enough, I'll stop here so I don't start repeating myself.
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point taken, Theodore. However, violence is violence, right? That is what I am getting from this conversation.

There is no distinction and there is no appropriate age to expose anyone to any violence in any form (with the most liberal interpretation of violence). Whether it be a parent lightly slapping a child's hand, a child pushing another child on the playground, a parent with love spanking a child, an adult beating a child in uncontrolled anger, people being tortured, wars, rape, etc., it is all one and the same. Therefore, watching a movie or reading a book or listening to music showing or describing such things being done is likewise subjecting one to abuse and/or violence and all violence, without exception or distinction, should be banned, even those of fantasy with pirate sword fights, Star Wars light saber fights, Star Trek phazers, Spiderman, Power Rangers, Pokemon, etc., because it exposes people to violence.

So, if there is no distinction between a violent act and an appropriate disciplinary act, then there is absolutely no excuse for anyone denouncing all violence, and including spanking as violence, yet promoting access to any books, movies, music, etc. that have any form of violence in them.
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StellarStory
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't see the issues of book banning and parental discipline to be at all intertwined.
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Lily
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seekingmyLord wrote:
Point taken, Theodore. However, violence is violence, right? That is what I am getting from this conversation.



Violence is violence, but there are safe ways to explore it. Hitting a person - not safe. Reading about it and the ramifications of what happened to that person/country because of the violence inflicted on it - safe. It is taking a step back, assessing the value of the actions, and tailoring our own so as not to have a repeat.

If you hit a child and deem that action to be safe and appropriate, yet do not give said child an opportunity to explore the same actions from a distance, where they can objectively see all sides, you are doing your children a disservice. If you constantly hit a person because he/she is smaller, yet deny access to learning about the outcomes of such, you are hurting your child. They get a one sided view - yours, and that is it.

More than that, censoring a public library does the same disservice to every other child, by not letting them learn about their world in an age appropriate way.

One of my favorite quotes on this topic :
"Obviously, the danger is not in the actual act of reading itself, but rather, the possibility that the texts children read will incite questions, introduce novel ideas, and provoke critical inquiry."
-Persis M. Karim


Oh, how we must keep our children from learning and growing!
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StellarStory wrote:
I personally don't see the issues of book banning and parental discipline to be at all intertwined.

I never did either until this thread.
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momagator
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Joined: 03 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have a question, I know it is going to be off subject....but after reading all the posts it brought on old problem of mine to light and I was hoping mabe I could get some ideas or suggestions on what to do.

Before I became a christian I was a huge Stephen King fan, I have all of his books (hard cover) and many collectors books - some of which have nothing to do with the horror genre - anyway I am at a loss as to what to do with them. My main objection to most of his books is the negative way he portrays christians and christainity. I do not want my kids reading them now or as adults so I can't keep them, I hestitate to give them away (it seems wrong to expose others to lies that could cause a stumbling block). If I throw them in the dump the guy that works there will just scavange them (and because I know he would, it would be the same as if I had gave them to him) and I cannot burn them - I loathe the thought of burning books and everything it stands for...so I feel like I am stuck. Any suggestions?

Thanks, sorry for the off-topic-ness of this post! Embarassed
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Lily
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

momagator wrote:
Hi all,

I have a question, I know it is going to be off subject....but after reading all the posts it brought on old problem of mine to light and I was hoping mabe I could get some ideas or suggestions on what to do.

Before I became a christian I was a huge Stephen King fan, I have all of his books (hard cover) and many collectors books - some of which have nothing to do with the horror genre - anyway I am at a loss as to what to do with them. My main objection to most of his books is the negative way he portrays christians and christainity. I do not want my kids reading them now or as adults so I can't keep them, I hestitate to give them away (it seems wrong to expose others to lies that could cause a stumbling block). If I throw them in the dump the guy that works there will just scavange them (and because I know he would, it would be the same as if I had gave them to him) and I cannot burn them - I loathe the thought of burning books and everything it stands for...so I feel like I am stuck. Any suggestions?

Thanks, sorry for the off-topic-ness of this post! Embarassed


Why do you loathe the burning of books? It seems to be the censoring you're after, not the freedom of choice that others can make.
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Calleigh
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say throw them in a big Hefty sack and don't worry about whether or not someone digs them out. Neutral
Calleigh
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StellarStory
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd give them to the library for their used book store, trade them with friends, or turn them into a book store that traded out value for value if I didn't want them. Of course I'd not have as my goal, keeping others from reading them. Frankly as popular as Steven King is, that's a lost cause anyway but regardless I wouldn't be trying to do that.
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seekingmyLord
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Joined: 04 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Standing in the radiance of His glory.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

momagator wrote:
Hi all,

I have a question, I know it is going to be off subject....but after reading all the posts it brought on old problem of mine to light and I was hoping mabe I could get some ideas or suggestions on what to do.

Before I became a christian I was a huge Stephen King fan, I have all of his books (hard cover) and many collectors books - some of which have nothing to do with the horror genre - anyway I am at a loss as to what to do with them. My main objection to most of his books is the negative way he portrays christians and christainity. I do not want my kids reading them now or as adults so I can't keep them, I hestitate to give them away (it seems wrong to expose others to lies that could cause a stumbling block). If I throw them in the dump the guy that works there will just scavange them (and because I know he would, it would be the same as if I had gave them to him) and I cannot burn them - I loathe the thought of burning books and everything it stands for...so I feel like I am stuck. Any suggestions?

Thanks, sorry for the off-topic-ness of this post! Embarassed

My uncle had a hardware/toy store in a small town. He had ordered in Ouija boards not having a clue about what they were about at all. My cousin was given dreams and every time my aunt opened her Bible praying as she had done for years for the Lord to reveal what He wished her to know at that time was continuously reading scripture about witchcraft. As soon as they figure it the source of the problem, they burned every one of them, because they did not want to contribute to distributing anything they were so against.

Seek the Lord's will and, when you follow His guidance, it will give you peace.
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seekingmyLord
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lily wrote:

Why do you loathe the burning of books? It seems to be the censoring you're after, not the freedom of choice that others can make.

They are her own books! Whether her own books are destroyed accidentally or purposely, how does that have anything to do with censoring?!
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Lily
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seekingmyLord wrote:
Lily wrote:

Why do you loathe the burning of books? It seems to be the censoring you're after, not the freedom of choice that others can make.

They are her own books! Whether her own books are destroyed accidentally or purposely, how does that have anything to do with censoring?!


Because of the reasoning behind it:
I hestitate to give them away (it seems wrong to expose others to lies that could cause a stumbling block). If I throw them in the dump the guy that works there will just scavange them (and because I know he would, it would be the same as if I had gave them to him)

It's not up to us to make choices about what others expose themselves to. By being so reluctant to even through them away, she is saying she does not trust anybody to be able to use and learn from the information, but instead have it as a "stumbling block".
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