Effect on other forms of schooling

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veniceia

Effect on other forms of schooling

Postby veniceia » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:57 pm

Effect on other forms of schooling
The growing interest in homeschooling and general desire of parents to move away from the public school system has created a positive effect on the public schools as scholars and politicians seek to improve the flexibility and overall academic levels of public schools. The voucher system, which provides families with tuition credit usable outside the public school system, is one of the outcomes that has been criticized by those opposed to the move away from public schools.

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Much needed government

Postby janw1256 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:11 pm


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Postby seekingmyLord » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:51 am

I would be asking within my community before going to the government.

It is not that I think that we should do away with a default educational system, it is just that I think there are better ways to run that kind of a system. I am not even going to address the problem within the education system itself, but rather the political use of that powerful little term, "It's for the children" and how politicians are running the education system, using education as a hook to get more money that does not necessarily benefit education.

I currently live in Georgia and in one of the fastest growing counties in the US. We were asking to pass a bond because our most overcrowded schools were going to have to go to double sessions. They continually used that scare tactic on the parents and had two special elections before they finally got it passed--they were very determined to get it passed no matter how many elections it took, (each election costing ten of thousands to set up) and everywhere there were signs "It's for the children." (At the same time we need seven new schools, including one high school, another older high school was getting a brand new auditorium, with monies from a previous bond, built where the tennis courts were and now they need to build new tennis courts that were not covered with that bond? :roll:)

They told everyone that the new bond would give them money immediately needed. Now, what they failed to tell people is that the bond does not count toward the state tax cap for education. Our county was about four mils below that cap and the BOE could have voted to raise the millage at any time without our approval but they wanted more. As I predicted and warned, within four months of getting the bond passed, the BOE voted to increase the millage rate--after the bond, which is what they had planned all along. (I am now waiting for the BOE to raise their salaries.)

This is not a new tactic. When I lived in Ohio, my senior year was a fiasco due to politics. First the state ran out of money and closed the schools a few weeks before Thanksgiving with plans to reopen in January when money was again available. Then, like the year before, we had the one of the worst winters with blizzards for which we had the snow days, however by the time we could start school again in my rural county, the regular school year would be too short by state law, so we had to go all of June and six Saturdays. On those Saturdays, we legally did not have the attendance we needed to be opened, half the teachers did not even show up. This little political stunt was simply to get the state lottery passed because everyone was told it would go toward education. What we were not told is that it would go in the general fund of which education would get a portion and that after the lottery was passed that portion for education would quietly decrease.

Then I lived in Florida. I was no longer in school, but the wiser about political claims for public schools. They also wanted a state lottery and claimed it would go toward education. My father-in-law does not remember my warning about how the lottery money will most likely go into a general fund and a few years later the schools will have just as much financial woes as they did then, just as they had done in Ohio. He was sure that the lottery would be the answer. Now he is really angry about how they want more money for schools, particularly in his county which is another fast growing county with the same problems as mine.

I will not allow my daughter to be exploited by politicians to make me agree to hand them more money that they will manage with little accountability while educating her with pro-government idea and not educating her about how the government has exploited public school children to get the money with that powerful little saying "it's for the children!"


I would venture to say that most homeschool families make it a priority to exercise their voting rights, so as I see it, the main reason "politicians seek to improve the flexibility and overall academic levels of public schools" is because they don't want to lose their political power/money hook.

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Government

Postby janw1256 » Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:43 pm


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Postby Theodore » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:36 pm

Well, individual people are ultimately responsible for letting the government continue doing what it's doing, but that doesn't meant we don't have way too much government. Yes, you do need government for keeping the roads in good condition, enforcing the law, running the military, etc. - basically anything of use to all citizens, not just a few. However, you do not need the federal or state government for social redistribution programs. That's what local government and church organizations are for. The further removed the part of government overseeing the redistribution, the more waste and fraud there will be, and the fact of the matter is that your money can be put to much better use by you than the government. Let's say you only had to pay half the taxes that you do now. You could afford to donate quite a bit - more than would make it through the government - and still come out ahead.

The government is like a person who walks along a street and donates $10 to every homeless person he sees. He doesn't bother to check if the money is being used for drugs or booze, and he doesn't bother to check if each person is in fact homeless. He doesn't care, he's using your money. As long as what he's doing doesn't create a scandal, it's all good.

Local organizations, on the other hand, know who's legitimately down on their luck, and who's just pulling a con. What's more, they know local suppliers and can get several times as much for the same amount of money as the government can (or you can, for that matter). I don't mind donating money, I just want to have a choice as to where it ends up.

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Postby seekingmyLord » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:47 am

I agree with Theodore, the larger the government at the state and federal levels, the less accountability there is--I would like to see significant downsizing there. Jan, I also agree with you that we should not blame government, but I think we should fear it a little. I have many concerns about how people desire government to do so much for them, which makes it bigger and more powerful and in need of more money, while not realizing that they are also trading their rights and freedoms away.

This is an extreme comparison, of course, but look what Hitler did with Germany through the use of government and its schools. Even today the Nazi-era law forbidding homeschooling is still in force, government approved education is the only education there. Parents have no parental rights at all when it comes to education. History has shown us what can be done when young minds are influenced with pro-government ideas.

Government schools in the US have more subtle messages that, of course, are for the good of society as a whole. They are careful to maintain appearances of individual rights and freedoms. For instance, we have lost parental rights in schools, but do most parents with children in public school know this? No. In fact, they will even argue that it is absurd and that if there was an incident, the other parents must have done something wrong to cause it. That is the attitude of people who, by the way, were also educated in government schools.

Yes, they are most definitely influencing the children and now there are generations of this influence, people don't even realize it. This influence has been subtly injected over decades. In fact, the educational system doesn't hide what it is doing, but makes it sound like the right thing to do so that the children will fit into society. Getting along with others is one thing, fitting into a society that the educational system has had the greatest influence in creating is quite another.

There is another big problem that comes out of this. Generations of people were educated to depend on the government to tell them their rights and protect their rights both at the same time. This has resulted in people being so trusting of government and ignorant of their own individual rights and the law that they allow government agents to act under the color of law.

I would also like to point out that voting is not really enough. As I said before, I believe that most homeschooling families are dedicated voters who really look into the issues, however the majority of people out there want the information to be handed to them as it was in school, even in this age of information, because people are just too busy living their own lives. People can only vote intelligently when they have all the facts and it is not government's job nor is it in the government's interest to provide us with all the facts. So, these people vote according to the information that falls in front of them, some catchy little saying like "its for the children" is sufficient, and they go with that. Besides we mostly vote on who will represent us, we give them voting rights in our republic form of government, but once the politician is in office, who really watches how he or she votes on every issue?

To loop this back to the OP, if politicians are in favor of alternative educational systems, I tend to believe that they would also want government control over them.

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Postby janw1256 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:14 pm

First, I am going to quote Romans 8: 1-7:
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Yes, the government may be doing all that you say. However, the main culprit is Satan. So, the only thing we can do is obey God and see what He is trying to do in our lives. I hope that by homeschooling we are following God's plan and not retreating out of schools in fear. Homeschooling is no doubt separating Christians from society and diminishing their impact in our society. How can we impact our society if we don't spend much time in it? How would schools change if Christians came in and tried to change them? How would society change if more Christian kids were in school and got to know kids there and affect them? Is God really telling us to pull out of society b/c it has gotten so nuts? Do we really need to go and hide in our basements?
We need to stop the whole argument over the separation of Church and State. Yes, the government should not be run by the church and has a job of its own, but that doesn't mean that the people in government can't talk about God. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be allowed to pray in school. That doesn't mean that the Bible should not be followed by the government. We need to penetrate society and stop letting it follow Satan to its doom. Just b/c others believe the lie about the separation of God from life doesn't mean that we have to.
Why are churches building humongous buildings? Why can't we use the church building solely for worship and spend the rest of our time in society? Why do people have to come to us b/f we go to them? Why are we so scared of people? Why can't our children grow up with non-believers and learn to love them? Why are Christians retreating from society? Why aren't we boldly on the front lines anymore?
I mean, so the government lets public schools go to pot and we take our children out of school and out of society in fear. Why are we letting the government have that much control on our lives? Why are Christians falling into cliques within their churches and in society? Why aren't we boldly proclaiming God's love to society anymore? Maybe it is our own fault that society is crumbling so quickly.
Jan :)

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Postby Calleigh » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:03 pm

Since we big, strong adult Christians aren't boldy proclaiming Christ from the mountaintops, how in the WORLD can we expect our kids to? Do we really think that one child will be able to go into the public school system and fight it on their own? When my son was in public school (and this was first grade!) he said something to another student about God and his teacher quickly informed him that, "We aren't allowed to talk about God in school." Now, I didn't know about it at the time; he didn't tell me until the following year after we had started homeshooling. Why didn't he tell me? Because he was afraid. Just afraid of what would happen. My kids have been taught to respect authority and he wasn't about to stand up and proclaim his "rights" to talk about God. Don't think that even teachers don't "bully" sometimes to keep things the way they want them.

So we aren't "hiding" from the public school system or society. I believe that if I raise my children in the Truth and give them the tools they need, they will be an even greater influence when they become adults and are strong enough in themselves and their personal relationship with the Lord. That is my job right now. Their job is to do their school work and to learn and grow. Not to go out and try to change the world at the ripe old age of seven.

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Postby seekingmyLord » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:04 pm


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Postby janw1256 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:43 am

Hi Guys,

Yes, I think you are right, that adults need to change society before children. But, I guess I see homeschooling as being a somewhat anti-society move by Christian adults.

I mean, if you think about it, once you are married and you have kids, your life starts to revolve a lot around your kids. You hang out with families and talk about your kids a lot. Many parents find their social life at school and get to know families that way. When adults separate themselves from the schooling community, they are separating themselves from a lot of potential relationships.

So, I guess I am wondering, how are the adults on here involved in their community? Do you get to know your neighbors? Do you spend time reaching out to those who aren't part of your church community? Do you get to know the parents at the extra-curricular activities that you take your kids to?

I think that homeschool families do not take into account how many relationships are generated by children. The children in families are usually the ones that reach out to people. They are the ones that get to know the neighbors first. Being a child is a time to grow and get to know lots of people.

No, children should not be expected to change the world. But, they can change you if you let them and they can force you to have a social life, if you let them.

I know that the people who I met in my life with the most problems were ones that either had parents who didn't care about them at all or had parents that were too controlling. I think it takes a lot of care and self-discipline as a homeschool parent to not be too controlling and allow your child to live and be a kid.

Kids have a unique role in life and I don't think it should be denied. So, maybe we should let kids change the world:)


And, I guess that's it for now. Have a beautiful day!

Jan

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