My pros and cons list of each

Want to contribute your views on the homeschool vs public school debate, or just looking for information? Post here!

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hbmom36
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Postby hbmom36 » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:10 am


MeganWiles
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Postby MeganWiles » Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:12 pm

Theodore,

Don't get me wrong, I agree that homeschooling is a much more efficient way to teach. If every child in public school was taught one-on-one, they would also have great success, this is part of the difficult. 20 or 30 to 1 is not ideal.
I also agree that teachers who don't allow for student differences or are unwilling to work with special needs children are not doing their best. Once more with student to teacher ratio this is more challenging, but not impossible. I have worked a lot with ADHD student to allow them more freedoms in a classroom, and promote positive rewards for on-task behavior through a token economy system that have been very effective and created positive self-esteem.
As for the stats on jail time and attendance I was just stating the reasoning, not drawing any conclusions.

I have to say though that I do take issue with those that blame all teachers for the failure a the education system are short sited. When I hear statements about 7 hours of work being ridiculous, teachers being too strict, and it being unreasonable to send kids to school with the sniffles, it make me think that people are generalizing.

I also feel that it promotes the stereotype that homeschoolers are pulling their kids because they are being questioned about extreme absenses.

There are exceptions to every rule. Like one of the previous posts said, children can have severe ailments that lead to repeated absenses.

I hope that you understand though, that teachers (in general) are not "out to get" the kids they teach? They are most often doing their best in less than ideal circumstances. I think it is best to focus on the benefits of homeschooling and not crucify a group of people who are working hard to do a good job.

I believe that when homeschooling is not an option for whatever reason, that an involved, informed parent can work with their child's teacher to ensure a good education. Neither the educator nor the parent is in this alone, it is when they work together that the child gets the best benefit.

I believe that education is something that occurs every day with each human interaction. We learn from one another on this forum, we learn from our family and friends, we learn from our children and they learn fom us. I wish that instead of criticizing others, we should try to exchange knowledge for the betterment of us both.

Here's another study for you

:)

When a psychologist planned an intervention for students with severe behavior problems, the results were mildly successful.
When a teacher planned an intervention for students with severe behavior problems, the results were mildly successful.
When they worked together on a plan, the results were incredible.

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Theodore
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I've never said that the fault lies entirely with teachers:

Postby Theodore » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:51 pm

I've never said that the fault lies entirely with teachers. In fact, I'd say that the fault lies largely with the bureaucrats, who come up with the policies that screw everything up (centralizing schools and increasing class sizes, removing just about every reward for working hard or penalty for not working hard, etc.) However, the important question is not who is at fault, but rather whether the public schools are doing a good job of educating - and while there are admittedly some good public schools (and a few bad homeschoolers), the public school system is in general doing a pretty poor job. Witness the heavy use of remedial learning in college and the business world.

And while individual teachers may not usually be part of the problem, the teachers' unions do make it overly hard to fire the minority of teachers who are part of the problem. Unions take the viewpoint that firing a few teachers for incompetence opens the floodgates to requiring that all teachers actually prove competence, so from their viewpoint they're doing the smart thing (keeping union dues high), but at the same time they're giving teachers all over a bad name and destroying public education. And the teachers' unions are also against any form of school vouchers, which would actually (gasp!) force schools to compete based on educational merit - and by extension, the educational merit of their teachers. Yet another strike against school reform. Is the object to be nice to teachers (not necessarily a bad thing, but...), or to educate children?

As for your study, I'm not trying to be nasty here, but where are the specifics? How many students? What types of behavior problems? What do you mean by intervention? How do you define mildly successful and incredible? Is this a study you can supply a link for? I could claim myself that homeschoolers are (on average) 2 years ahead by the end of high school, show more creativity and leadership, succeed better both in academia and the business world - and I'd be correct - but if I'm not able to back that up upon request with further information, then everything I've said basically amounts to a hill o' beans. Please elaborate.

(blame my Logic teacher for that last paragraph, not me :P )

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Postby Marcus » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:17 pm

IMO, Megan and Theodore are both correct. The initial post was generalizing public education while comparing it to the personal education that could be provided. Theodore, you were right on about beaurocratics and public education.

Cat35, if the level of education you can provide is greater than that of a public school then the choice is clear. Remember, home education can be greater in the content being taught also. You never mentioned this in your post.

The question I have is in considering homeschooling, are you attempting to improve the quality of education for your children, seperate or shield them from societal issues you see as problems or both? (or maybe some other reason?)

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It's more societal than education:

Postby Theodore » Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:39 pm

What is your main reason for homeschooling?

I'd say that almost everyone homeschools for more than one reason, but as you can see from the link above, academics are the primary reason for only around a quarter of homeschoolers (who voted in our poll).

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Postby AnnetteR » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:50 pm

Homeschooling con? Children need to be with other children to learn to socialize. I disagree. Parents (and adults) need to set the example and correct inappropriate behavior. This is not something that I see being addressed in schools, so I'm uncertain why, when discussing homeschooling a child, someone always argues that there is no chance for children to socialize. Homeschooling doesn't mean bolting the door and never letting your child see the light of day. Socialization is easily worked into homeschooling, and I say this wihout having really begun the homeschooling process (or have I?).

Pro: my child can work at his pace. I have a gifted child in the public school system and they will only let him work up to a certain level. The concern is yet another one of socialization.

Pro: my child can learn a second language, without being limited to the two or three that are available in immersion schools or are currently being introduced to some public schools.

Pro: I imagine that I can tailor a lot of subjects to some of my child's existing interests: hiking, climbing, photography, specific musical instruments, etc.

Con: being that I'm just starting it's a bit confusing sorting out what the law requires, choosing what to teach, learning what needs to be reported and when.

Con: feeling isolated (for the parent) if you don't know anyone else that homeschools (I'm looking into some local groups now).

Con: not having that time off while the kids are in school. :o

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Re: My pros and cons list of each

Postby trey » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:16 pm


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Postby Theodore » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:25 am


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Postby trey » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:37 am


Against Homeschooling
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Postby Against Homeschooling » Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:03 pm

I'm afraid that you're not going to find very many people with a reasonable take on the homeschool/public school debate in this forum, Trey. However, I would love to see your list of pros and cons from the homeschooled child's point of view.

And while I'm posting, allow me to introduce myself. I am an ex-homeschooler now attending public school. I was lonely and miserable while I was taught at home, but to hear my parents talk I was perfectly adjusted and "socialized." I believe from my exposure to other homeschooled kids that this is a widespread case, so I make a point of reading up on this forum and occasionally posting when there seems to be need.

I think it's great that you're here to give us a balanced view of the debate, and I think that the thread you started has potential to clear up often-obfuscated points regarding friendship and peer exposure while homeschooling.

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Postby Mark » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:43 pm


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Socialization for gifted students

Postby Ramona » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:12 pm


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Re: Socialization for gifted students

Postby AnnetteR » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:52 pm


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Homeschool through high school

Postby gr8scott » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:03 pm

I have 3 children, boys 14 and 11 and a 7 yr old girl. I am getting intimidated as high school is approaching fast. My oldest has given me grief almost every day with complaining about school. He doesn't want to go to public school (nor do I want him to) but I feel he needs to get out from under me and be accountable to someone else. He has taken a science class from someone else and really shocked me with his care about getting his work done on time. I feel he is a little on the lazy side as far as wanting to homeschool only because it takes up less time in a day. I am wanting to keep him out of the public schools, yet have him accountable to someone other than me ! We have a great relationship but I am beaten down with his constant complaining when it comes to school. Is there anyone out there who might have some great advice for me? I am looking for some direction to go next year, as I can't do it the way we have been for another year! Just to give you an idea.....when he was almost 3, my neighbor potty trained him because he would "go" for her but complain to me!! I know this is my problem, not his, so any words of advice would be greatly appreciated!

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Postby bobbinsx5 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:02 pm

Is there a co-op in your area you could get involved in? That may be one way for you to get through this period, however, I will say (speaking from experience, here) if he isn't going to do what you say, that needs to have the greatest amount of attention. He needs to be motivated to do what you say because you are his parent, and the Bible says he is supposed to. (I'm not being judgemental, I'm saying this because I have had to deal with this from one of my kids that was a lot younger than your son at the time.) Just a thought...


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